South Dakota State Senator Dan Lederman is introducing legislation in that state to insure that no foreign or shariah-type law can infiltrate the state law. Jerry Gordon of the New English Review (The Iconoclast) has the story. And guess who is also mentioned in the article; our good friends in the Islamic Circle of North America, who held a dinner Sunday in Yorba Linda, California.
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/32673#CurDomainURL%23/blog.cfm
Kudos to the Jewish & Christian Coalition of the Midwest. Kudos to Dan Lederman.
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31 comments:
This bill seems a lot better than the bigoted amendment that was passed (and blocked) in Oklahoma since it doesn't explicitly single out one religion.
I am a bit concerned however that the leading sponsor of bill is an Orthodox Jew.
Halahkah (Jewish law) is just as if not more barbaric than Sharia law.
Infact in Irvine, CA Jewish groups have constructed an eruv around our city, which officially makes the city "Kosher".
Keep America secular.
Good grief, even in South Dakota.
It is amazing that there even has to be an effort to maintain US law in the US. Who cares what is illegal under Sharia? If any action that is permissible under Sharia law (like cutting off hands for stealing) is against the US law, there should be no question what law prevails.
I liked that effort to force disclosure on any financial transactions or documents that are subject to Sharia law. I think those transactions would dry up in America if that were known to the parties.
I don't even care for judges looking at foreign laws for "guidance" in deciding cases. There is plenty of case law already flowing from OUR Constitution and the cases decided here.
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Are measures like this really even necessary? I think that the First Amendment protects us from it just fine. I have no problem with religious laws (of any kind) so long as they fit within the framework of our Constitution. This sort of thing just smacks of paranoia - I mean, are there even a lot of Muslims demanding sharia in South Dakota to begin with here?
There is a pretty large community in Sioux Falls. There are 3 mosques with a 4th on the way.
Anonymous,
Whats an eruv.
I don't know what Jewish groups you are referring to, but half of the large Jewish groups in OC are not on my friends list and vis-versa.
Lance,
I believe the measure is called, "American law for American courts." How can that be unconstitutional? Keep in mind we have at least one justice on the Supremem Court that thinks International laws and laWS of other countries shouldbe taken into consideration. Its not as far fetched as you think.
There is nothing more pathetically demagogic than legislation to prevent what is constitutionally prohibited. The First Amendment prohibits any establishment of religion, and there is ample Supreme Court precedent that this means no religious canon can be given the force or effect of law.
This legislator obviously has no faith at all in our Constitution, or, he is simply grandstanding to get himself some headlines that look good to whichever folks he is catering to.
Gary, just out of curiosity, do you favor special hate crime legislation for racial/homophobic acts?
When did I say it was unconstitutional? I said that it seems unnecessary, considering the First Amendment. Shoot, Miggie essentially said the same thing.
"What's an eruv".
Eruvs are structures that Jews build on public lands that signify that an area is Jewish.
Check out the wikipedia article on "Eruv".
Midge and Lance need to understand that most anti-sharia legislation/amendments are proposed by conservatives.
There is nothing conservatives love more than spending time on useless legislation. Conservatives seem to relish conflict, even when there is no conflict.
Conservatives are like rabid dogs. Sane societies put down rabid dogs.
This is the meaning of "Eruv": The words "eruv" and "shituf" actually mean "mixing." For its purpose is to blend and mix the entire community together. The word also means that those Jewish people in the community can participate in certain mutually advantagious activities during the Sabboth, such as cooking or carrying food to other places. Thus, the Eruv is designated as a certain part of the city that will allow these activities.
Squid
"There is nothing conservatives love more than spending time on useless legislation. Conservatives seem to relish conflict, even when there is no conflict.
Conservatives are like rabid dogs. Sane societies put down rabid dogs."
Anonymous,
Boyu, am I glad you stopped there. I hate to think what you might have said in another couple of sentences.
My Jewish friends describe eruv as something pretty innocuous within the Jewish community. You seem to think it's more sinister.
As for what you say about conservatives, what I read into it is that you think we should be killed like rabid dogs. Is that a correct interpretion, Anonymous?
WHO IS THE HATER HERE ANYWAY?
Now I know why you sign your name "Anonymous". Smart idea.
Atticus,
What I favor is laws against susbstantive crimes committed against gays, or other minority groups. That they have hate as a motive to me is an element of proof that the defendant may have committed the crime. It should not be a separate charges. It could be considered as an aggravated circumstance, by which a prosecutor could ask a judge to take into consideration at sentencing. It is called an aggravation hearing and as a Customs/DEA agent, I testified ina couple of them, one in Chicago.
If you recall, Wyoming successfully prosecuted the men who murdered matthew Shepherd and Texas successfully prosecuted those who killed James Byrd.
The dangers are how we and who determines what is or isn't hate speech. I have often spoken out against what I consider anti-semitic hate speech on university campuses. I have never called for the speaker to be silenced or prosecuted for their words. Where does one draw the line? Just yesterday, Elisabeth Sabaditsch--Wolff was convicted of hate speech in Austrai against Muslims. The one guilty verdict hinged on a question that revolved around the Prophet Mohammed's marriage to Aisha.
Hate speech is to be condemned. Yet, there are many cases when it is a matter of opinion and perception as to whther something constitutes hate speech. That is why it is protected under our constitution.
Im afraid your Jewish friends are not telling you the whole story.
An Eruv is like a psuedo "wall" that Jews build around whole communities. But instead of actual walls, Jews instead use wires strung up from poles that surround huge sections of cities. The wired/walled off areas mimics the "Jewish quarters" of ancient cities, and essentially makes the area "Jewish".
Halakha (Jewish law) forbids Jews from performing such tasks as working, driving, carrying a wallet or keys, or pushing shopping carts on the Sabbath. Jews are however able to "cheat" their own laws when they are inside area surrounded by an eruv.
The main problem is that eruvs are constructed on public lands, and thus constitute a government sponsorship of religion. Huge parts of many American cities such as Irvine, Los Angeles, San Diego, New York, etc are surrounded by eruvs, and eruvs are spreading.
Many communities in America, the UK, and Australia are fighting to prevent eruvs from being constructed.
I as a non-Jew certainly dont want to live in an area that is surrounded by an eruv and Jewish law compliant.
Anonymous,
All I can say is I have never heard of this nor seen it.
As I understand Eruvs, they are virtual areas surrounded by symbolic walls. I've never seen one or know anyone who has. For the ultra religious, who are not supposed to work on the Sabbbath, it is an area or neighborhood where they can carry things, for example. Presumably, if they carried things long distances, it would be considered work.
As to the claim that they ".. are constructed on public lands, and thus constitute a government sponsorship of religion." they are actually threads or string tied between lamp posts. I've driven through areas where they are reputed to be many times and I've never seen them. So it is hardly construction on public land or government sponsored.
If you see a danger over this, I wonder how you feel about another group who plants bombs, flies hijacked planes into buiildings, shoots innocent people, and so on all on public land and spreading. Would you prefer to live in that kind of neighborhood?
Put me down as opposing imposition of Sharia in any Jewish eruv.
Amazing! The boundaries of an eruv has gone from "structures" to "walls" to "building poles" to now a comparison with spray painting walls. Somehow, the false notion persists that this is claimed as Jewish "territory." It is no such thing.
They are, IF they exist at all, threads(!). They are not detectible even to those who look for them. Nobody built anything on public or private ground.
It would follow that the people who are so concerned with this would object to a Rabbi saying, "God bless Irvine." Would that make Irvine Jewish territory?
Gary and I live in the area and have looked for them where they are purported to be and neither one of us has seen them. If they exist, all the harm they do is to give comfort to pious Jews who want to observe their Sabbath, comforted that they are not inadvertently extending their activities too far on that day.
Anonymous and marcadams99, I think your real problem with them is something else.
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Looks like the proposed bill went down pretty fast.
http://www.blackhillsfox.com/2011/02/16/SD-lawmakers-reject-bill-targeting-Islamic-laws
Miggie,
This is beginning to sound like Jeff Halper's story about Israeli spectral dust.
Well Miggie, all I can say is that living in Irvine, CA I have never been subjected or exposed to Islamic (Sharia) law.
I just thought it would be informative to point out that our little city is surrounded by a Jewish law compliant boundary.
Heck we cant even buy a carton of milk in this country that doesnt have the little "K" for Kosher sign on it.
Anonymous,
If you live in Irvine and have never been subjected to Islamic law you probably stayed away from UCI.
Insofar as living in city that some unknown portion of which is supposedly designated by pious Jews as ok for them to walk around within but not beyond on their Sabbath and having to drink milk out of cartons with a "K" on it (that I never noticed either), I have to say it reflects a tremendous amount of tolerance on your part. I don't know how you bear it. Thanks for your diligence in these matters and for exposing this threat to our civil liberties and the Constitution itself.
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I attend UC Irvine, and have attended speeches/events sponsored by muslim students.
Didn't see any "sharia law", but perhaps you have and can provide an example or two.
Anonymous,
About 5 years ago, I happened to pass by a speech at UCI by Alim Musa, a radical imam from Washington. This was at an MSU event by the flagpoles. Musa is pro-Hamas, pro-Hezbollah and pro-Iranian regime. He talks openly about the downfall of America. What got me upset was when he said that Islam would one day take over the US and that "they wanted it all". He "assurred" the Christians and Jews in the audience that they would be "OK" when that day came. He did not elaborate. (Translation-Dhimmi status)It was that event that got me involved.
I don't think many Muslim speakers who come to a college campus will openly say that sharia will rule the US one day. Yet-in their own circles- they have been known to say it. Muzammil Siddiqi, the head of the Garden Grove Islamic Center, a man who presents himself as a moderate and participates in interfaith events, one of which I attended at Chapman a couple of years back, has been quoted as saying he favors eventual shariah in the US. I doubt that many imams and Islamic leaders would fail to support the idea of sharia since it is Islam's legal code. The important thing to keep in mind is that Islam is more than just a religion; it is a political ideology that does not believe in separation of religion and state. It is designed to control every aspect of a person's life.
Miggie,
I'm still looking for those mysterious strings surrounding parts of Irvine. Have you seen them?
I'm also still trying to find "The Great Park". Have you seen it? All I can see is those big signs telling me where to turn to get there. Seems I just go around in circles.
Hey maybe we should put strings around the Great Park.
"The important thing to keep in mind is that Islam is more than just a religion; it is a political ideology that does not believe in separation of religion and state. It is designed to control every aspect of a person's life."
Then I guess every religion is more than a religion.
The pope is not just a religious leader, but also the monarch of Vatican city. Also he serves as an OB-GYN advising women not to take birth control.
Ditto for Hinduism which actually breaks down its followers into political and social classes such as priests, warriors, kings, janitors, etc.
Also true for Gary's favorite religion Judaism. Judaism not only defines a Jew's spiritual beliefs, but also assigns them a seperate ethnicity, complete with laws ranging from how to cut ones hair, to how to cut a newborn boys penis.
I guess I found those not so mysterious strings strangling Irvine.
http://www.bethjacobirvine.org/images/irvinemap3a.jpg
The area Jews consider as theirs is within the green lines.
Anonymous,
Ver interesting. Here's one for you
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://heritageaction.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/uffington-white-horse-sat1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://heritageaction.wordpress.com/2010/05/&usg=__6TzqfAljA3kaZSAqAwiIrAgmPi8=&h=480&w=640&sz=95&hl=en&start=113&zoom=1&tbnid=lUtbI9Zb8AfpNM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=163&ei=typgTZGcEo-UtweawomDDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmysterious%2Bcut%2Bouts%2Bin%2Blandscape%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D987%26bih%3D437%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C3328&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=417&vpy=132&dur=3776&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=102&ty=214&oei=WipgTcdJxZ2BB5DIvMoB&page=12&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:113&biw=987&bih=437
Everything north of the horse is my ranch.
marcadams99, you are a straight up LIAR. I looked at that page you supplied a link to and NOWHERE does it say or even intimate in the slightest that " the Jews consider [the area] as theirs is within the green lines."
This is yet another example of the free use of the Muslim "Taqiyya" ... the Muslim religiously sanctioned lying or deception.
IF the threads or wires exist (and I have yet to meet anyone who has seen one) they are next to invisible and harm no one. NOTHING inside or outside the supposed boundaries changes or affects anyone. They are explicitly intended to apply ONLY to pious Jews on the Sabbath. Anyone at all can come and go whenever they want within the eruv as well as outside of it.
On the hand, the area appropriated on the UCI campus by the MUSLIMS for their prayers and whatnot ... no one else is welcome there... as I can testify to personally. So they take this little area for themselves, (who knows if they deigned to get permission?) and yet they have the gall to complain about an open eruv?
I suspect you know the area well and, if not, I'm confident Gary will confirm its existence.
I'll tell you. You guys are despicable! You come here or your parents come here and you attempt to impose your Bedouin ways and religion on your host country. You lie and break our laws and murder our citizens and try to get forgiveness under our lenient laws. You have more civil rights and freedom here than in any Muslim country in the world and yet you are so ungrateful for what you get here. Your anti-Semitism is flat out vulgar, offensive, and unappreciated by a vast majority of Americans. You are obsessed with it and try relentlessly to impose it on us. What has it ever got you or your people? Your people and your Muslim countries are the poorest, depraved, and most ignorant in the world while they excel in anti-Semitism.
The tide is turning. The leaders in Europe see what a mistake they made by letting you immigrate there so freely. The more of a problem you make of yourselves here the more we will want to rid ourselves of you.
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Anonymous, you are not as anonymous as you think. When you write things like this you expose yourself as being a MUSLIM anti-Semite.
"Also true for Gary's favorite religion Judaism. Judaism not only defines a Jew's spiritual beliefs, but also assigns them a seperate ethnicity, complete with laws ranging from how to cut ones hair, to how to cut a newborn boys penis."
Judaism, notwithstanding whatever lies you've been told or made up for yourself does not "assign them to a seperate (sic) ethnicity" --- whatever that means. I never heard of a Jewish law about how to cut one's hair but an easy Google search found these Muslim prohibitions:
"Five things are included in the fitra: trimming the moustache, cutting the nails, shaving the pubic hair, plucking the armpits, and using the siwak (arak stick for cleaning the teeth).
(Sahih al-Bukhari, Adab al-Mufrad)
"Ten are the acts according to Fitra: clipping moustache, letting the beard grow, using the tooth-stick, snuffing water in the nose, cutting the nails, washing the finger joints, plucking the hair under the armpits, shaving the pubes and cleaning one's private parts with water." The narrator said: "I have forgotten the tenth, but it may have been rinsing the mouth."
(Sahih Muslim, Book #2, Hadith #502. Also reported by Ahmad, al-Nasa'i, and at-Tirmidhi)
As for far as circumcision is concerned, you must know (but choose not to mention) there are many fold more Muslim men circumcised than Jewish men. It is the foreskin and not the penis first of all and within Judaism it is done after the first week and for Muslim men sometime between ages 13 and 15 (as far as I know) and I imagine a lot more traumatic for them.
Let us not forget the cruel "female circumcision" that is uniquely Muslim. It is what civilized people call mutilation of the female clitoris. Muslims supposedly do this so they will not enjoy sexual relations. Do you deny that this is done widely in Muslim countries or do I have to go Google it for you?
Islam, that Religion of Peace, has more atrocities and bizarre beliefs than any religion on earth. So it is not a good idea for you to go there unless you want a little "compare and contrast" exercise.
Your observations about the Pope are just as bizarre.
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Marcadams99,
I have deleted your comment with a link to a video about Jews. I rarely delete comments that disagree with my point of view, but since this is my blog, I am free to exercise my own form of censorship. If you want to post stuff that is anti-Jewish, there are other blogs where they will welcome it. Not here.
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