In the on-going controversy over the Olive Tree Initiative in the University of California system, now European rabbis associated with the European Union have taken notice. Below is a letter by Rabbi Aba Dunner to Orange County Jewish Federation CEO Shalom Elcott (Rabbi Dunner has provided this letter to others for dissemination.) The Conference of European Rabbis has NGO status within the European Union.
"Dear Mr Elcott,
We are the Conference of European Rabbis, the umbrella organisation of all European Chief Rabbis and Rabbis and their communities in Europe.
We understand that your Federation is sponsoring students from California to participate in programmes organised by the Olive Tree organisation. Surely this can’t be right. This organisation is clearly an anti Israel body that has a definite agenda which is to delegitimize Israel.
For a Jewish organisation to sponsor Jewish students to participate in such programmes is quite wrong.
As we all know, students can so easily be influenced to adopt ideas and dogmas especially when they are at odds with the ideas of their peers. This new trend, which is to expose youth to all that is available is valid up to a point. But not when it endangers the continuity of the Jewish people.
It would be sad if these youngsters returned to California and joined anti Israel protests, marches and organisations, just because your Federation felt that this exposure was important for their education.
We ask you in all sincerity to cancel any support for Olive Tree and to desist from sending anyone to their programmes. Rather, your Federation should carefully monitor what they are doing and take action to counteract their activities.
Sincerely,
Rabbi Aba Dunner
Executive Director
Conference of European Rabbis"
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Fousesquawk comment: I wonder if Rabbi Dunner knows Nigel Farage.
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37 comments:
European Jews are fleeing their countries for their lives. The atmosphere is reminiscent of Germany in the 1930s, so these rabbis are telling the truth about what Olive Tree is all about.
I wonder if it is falling on deaf ears?
This rabbi is entitled to his opinion. I hope thoughtful people associated with OTI will ignore him. He obviously has a knee-jerk reflex against any conversation with any Palestinian viewpoints. If Israel doesn't get itself situated so that Arabic children can grow up in a fairly stable life with real economic prospects, then some time or other in the next couple of centuries, they will lose a war. They can't afford to lose even one. Time is not on their side.
Thanks Findalis, I will post that article.
Yes, lance, Europe as a whole.
I wasn't aware that The Netherlands and Malmo, Sweden were enough to represent Europe as a whole.
Look, not trying to make light of the situation, but I'm still not seeing evidence for what you wrote. At best, your comment is highly exaggerated.
Lance,
I could give you anecdotes from virtually every western european country. You could probably find many of them on this blog if you care to search.
Gary, anecdotes are just that - anecdotes. They're not proof of a vast trend. I don't know, maybe you and Findalis are right, but neither of you have provided enough evidence to convince me.
Lance,
I have posted numerous anecdotal incidents about anti-Semitism in Europe right here on this blog. You could also go to the blogs under the heading, Our real European Allies. They are European blogs, many of which are primarily concerned with anti-Semitism in Europe.
In other words, you've got nothing. How about some facts? Statistics? Numbers?
Lance,
I see you are a stats guy. I suggest you put on those green eyeshades and do the research. You will see that it is true.
What a tremendous cop-out. You can't back up what you say with any facts, so you tell me to do some research. You're the one making the claim - YOU do the research!
And again, anecdotes do not prove a larger trend.
"You're the one making the claim - YOU do the research!"
LOL
lance, you are the one wanting the info-You do the research. What am I the Lance Johnson Institute researcher?
Sheeez!
Here, Lance. This will get you started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe
I see you have gone to the Miggie School for Links That Don't Support Your Point.
This article talks about how there is anti-Semitism in Europe - something which I have never denied. Findalis stated that "European Jews are fleeing their countries for their lives." If this was true, I imagine it would be pretty easy to provide some numbers to back this up. Instead, I get dodges, anecdotes and links that don't address the point.
For the billionth time, if you make a claim about something, the intellectually honest thing to do is to provide evidence for it. Telling somebody who questions your assertion to "do the research" shows the weakness of your argument.
Why do I always feel like I have to explain everything again as though I was talking to a third grader?
"Why do I always feel like I have to explain everything again as though I was talking to a third grader?"
Maybe it's because you are so used to talking to kids with heads full of mush.
http://ald.aatg.org/resources/ethnicities/jewish/wirsindda.pdf
I am very reluctant to comment on anything about this subject, because someone is going to accuse me of something, but I googled the above link and my impression is that Jews in Germany have no problems living there, and Germany is in Europe last time I checked. My Jewish friend from NY (yes Ted, I have Jewish friends) is looking to buy an apartment in Berlin. Welcome to Germany.
Wow...good job of sending me on a wild goose chase of irrelevant information, Findalis. I have the same complaint for your links as I did Gary's. Seriously, do you people not know how to read?
Why can't you just provide me with some numbers that prove your assertion rather than a lifetime's worth of links to read?
It is impossible for a Jew wearing a kippur or Star of David to walk in any city of Europe without being harassed, spit upon, attacked or even tortured to death. These are the facts.
It happens to a guy so therefore it happens to anybody on the entire continent? Crap, but you are bat**** insane.
Lance,
We have given you two sources and you are not satisfied! What do you want-Xs and Os with nice little arrows, equations, percentages and peer reviews?
Ingrid,
I would expect Germany to take the lead in fighting anti-Semitism, and I am sure they have done more than most European countries. They have resettled Russian Jews and many cities like Erlangen have reached out to former Jewish residents who fled during the Nazi era and invited them back to visit. I don't dwell too much on a few skinheads and Neo-Nazis because I don't think they represent average German attitudes. However, there have been some incidents (which I reported) such as in Berlin and Hannover during the past year which involved Middle Eastern assailants.
Lance is correct on at least one point:
If you want to make an assertion of fact, and expect anyone else to accept it as fact, it is your responsibility to provide clear and convincing evidence.
I could refer you to a link offering the full text of "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion," as evidence of all kinds of evil insinuations about Jews, but I don't consider that proof of anything, and I bet nobody else here does either.
You can wallow in your opinions and chant "Is so" every time your challenged, but that is convincing only to yourselves.
I have no reason to do research to prove your point. I have no reason to expect I would find any evidence of it. You haven't presented any. Go back to the drawing boards boys and girls. My fourth grade teacher taught us better standards of research than a college instructor is displaying here.
You're right, Siarlys, all this talk of anti-Semitism in Europe is just a figment of my imagination.
When I refer to the Holocaust in my writings, do you need figures for that too?
We have given you two sources and you are not satisfied!
Gary, you gave me two sources that DON'T EVEN ADDRESS THE ASSERTION THAT I'M CALLING INTO QUESTION!
Jiminey fricken' Christmas but you're being really dense right now.
And now that you and Findalis have been called out on your BS, all you can do is start putting words in my (and Siarlys') mouth.
Lance,
I can only tell you what I told Siarlys,
You are both absolutely 100%correct. It's all BS. Now go to bed and sleep well tonight.
Now we see the typical tactic of the left. Yell and scream like a child, ignore the evidence put before you, and scream obscenities at those whose viewpoints are different from yours.
Somebody needs a timeout!
Lance,
Here's another one on anti-Semitic incidents in Europe in 2009. It's got all kinds of juicy numbers just like you requested.
Here is an opinion piece from Fiamma Nirenstein.
I guess she doesn't know what she is talking about either.a
My lord, are you two really this obtuse? Are you guys not aware of the fact that you can review the entire conversation before making a post?
Gary, when did I say that anti-Semitism in Europe was all BS? When did I even imply it? Show me the quote where I said it or admit that you're being dishonest and putting words in my mouth.
For Christ's sakes, look at the very top of this thread. I'm questioning THIS assertion:
European Jews are fleeing their countries for their lives.
I asked for proof. Instead, you both provided me with links about anti-Semitism in Europe, which isn't what I was questioning.
And now Findalis provides an OPINION article as evidence! Then she writes:
Now we see the typical tactic of the left. Yell and scream like a child, ignore the evidence put before you, and scream obscenities at those whose viewpoints are different from yours.
You haven't provided any evidence for the assertion that you made! I can give you links like crazy, that doesn't mean anything is proved!
If there's anything "typical" here it's the fact that neither of you has any concept of what evidence even is.
You know, what's really ridiculous about this whole thing is that you both could win this argument so easily if you had all this evidence that you keep claiming to have. All you would have to do is write: "In the past 10 years, 40% of the Jewish population in 10 different European nations have fled to other countries." (Of course, I'm just making that up, but if Findalis' original assertion was right, then there would be some statistics along those lines.)
It would be SO EASY to prove me wrong if you only had some facts. All you can do is send me on a wild goose chase through links that don't address the question at hand.
Siarlys Jenkins wrote:
"He obviously has a knee-jerk reflex against any conversation with any Palestinian viewpoints."
Might it be Jenkins's own knee-jerk reflex against Israel/Jews who clearly see the evil they face?
What is the Palestinian viewpoints? "Atbach al Yahood",[slaughter the Jews as declared by Haj Amin al Hussieni, uncle of Arafat and adherent of the Muslim Brotherhood, and entrenched in the Arabs/Palis society to date. [See www.TellTheChildernTheTruth.com ]or is it their other slogan, "From the river to the sea Palestine shall be free"
So If Jenkins and the likes do not understand the nature of this beast called "Palestinians", please, read the current national Jordanian Charter, chapter 8. found here: http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/charter-national.html
or better carefully read the PLO Charter found here: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp
So if Jenkins think for a moment that the Arabs now called Palestinians have any other view point other than to ultimately destroy the Jewish/Hebrew State, he and the like are naive at best!
The PA receives billions of dollars from the EU, the USA and Israel so that they can improve their people's life but its leadership steals it. See here: Where Did Billion’s of Dollars of Foreign Aid to PA Go?
March 31st, 2010 by Rasheed
http://www.biblediscovered.com/new-world-order-economics/where-did-billions-of-dollars-of-foreign-aid-to-pa-go/
And one can google about this issue to learn more.
Jenkins do your homework! Before you criticize any rabbi who is closer to the Arab Israeli conflict far better than you can ever be living in Wisconsin driving a bus.
That "opinion" article was written by an Italian Jew who is the Vice-President of the Committee on Foreign Affairs and Chair of the Committee for the Inquiry into Antisemitism in the Italian Chamber of Deputies. Not just another journalist writing an article.
A big difference. But to Lance it seems only left-leaning University professors are to be considered experts in any field.
Lance,
Here is some info on France for you:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/136274
Lance,
Here is a repot on Belgium
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/watchdog-group-says-anti-semitism-skyrocketing-in-belgium-1.275749
Lance,
Here is Austria (2004):
http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2004/austria.htm
Can you hear the sound of music yet?
Lance,
More.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby_euro_antisem.php3
Lance,
How about Spain?
http://philosemitism.blogspot.com/2010/09/casa-sefarad-israel-on-anti-semitism-in.html
All of those articles are about the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe - something which I have not denied.
Again, I'm questioning THIS statement:
European Jews are fleeing their countries for their lives.
I don't see any of those articles addressing this point and just how many Jews are leaving.
As always, you guys keep arguing points that I'M NOT EVEN MAKING.
Can I make it any clearer? I acknowledge that not only is anti-Semitism on the rise in Europe, but I also acknowledge that it's a serious problem. I have my doubts, however, that the problem has gotten to the point where one can say that European Jews are "fleeing for their lives".
Seriously, a third grader has more sense of nuance than you two.
Lance,
Let me put it my perspective and let Findalis put it in hers. Jews are in fact leaving Sweden and Holland. A jew in France was kidnapped and tortured to death. What I will say is that Jews in most Western European countries are experiencing serious anti-Semitism, especially from certain elements of the popuation-young male Muslim immigrants and skinhead, neo-Nazi types. I don't know the number of homocides, but it looks to me like the situation is truly becoming dangerous. History has already shown us where anti-semitism leads.
Gary, IF I questioned whether the Churban Europa ever happened, or suggested it killed only 10,000, not six million, then, and only then, you would have to provide me some credible evidence, at least a reference to a documented source drawing on first-hand observation. That would not be hard to do. However, I haven't questioned it. I was reading about it in fifth grade, and on several occasions since, so its not exactly news to me.
Among the hot air being blown about to now effect in this discussion, Findalis made a sensible remark:
The majority of anti-Semitism in Europe is coming from their Muslim immigrants, not the native populations. Unfortunately due to the multiculturalism of the majority of European governments, it will go unchecked so not to appear Islamaphobic.
Yes, Europe has made some mistakes. They do not stem entirely from an addiction to multiculturalism. Most of the Muslim immigrants were either invited (Turks to Germany), or came from former colonial possessions (France and Britain). I can't say the same about Sweden or Denmark, and probably not so much Holland, but Europe has free movement now.
Europeans are sensitive about demeaning their former "natives," and up to a point, rightly so. Now, they have the problem of one cultural minority the dominant culture tried to keep hands off of, finding cause to vamp on another, more established, cultural minority. That's a mess, and should be dealt with firmly. It appears true that European governments are exercising the all-too-human propensity for hoping that a discipline problem will go away if ignored, because wading in would be messy. Sooner or later, they have to deal with it. It is not, however, a reprise of the last round of European anti-Semitism.
Anonymous, who is performing in his or her usual cowardly form (as Gary occasionally mentions) isn't worth much response, but I was quite well read on the Grand Mufti and his ilk, probably before you were born. Do you remember the 1967 war? I do.
Once again, my point is that far too much is lost by consigning whole populations over to such "leadership" by labeling the viewpoint of well placed loudmouths as "the Palestinian point of view." Since you indulge in this brand of obfuscation yourself, I don't really expect you to understand.
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