Now that Brian Sicknick of the Capitol Hill Police has died from injuries he suffered in Wednesday's storming of the Capitol, the death toll stands at 5. The other 4 persons who died are being identified as Trump supporters. There are still claims that some of the rioters were Antifa-types who infiltrated the protesters and participated. As yet, that is not yet confirmed. Whether that will turn out to be the case, I don't know, and I am trying to be cautious in my own comments until we know more.
But those of us who have supported Trump and suspected that the election was stolen in states like Georgia, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, must own up to certain facts. Whether Antifa was involved or not, the involvement of individuals supporting Trump cannot be denied. To me, this is not an indictment of all those who went to Washington to protest what they felt was a stolen election. They were not wrong to do so. They were not wrong to march to the Capitol though it was a bad decision. Those who went the extra step and broke into the Capitol were wrong-period. They need to be identified and prosecuted.
We also need to face the fact that right-wing, white nationalist groups are on the rise. We can say this is a natural reaction to all the left-wing violence and craziness going on, but that doesn't make it right when you are pushing hate and violence. This is not what conservatism is supposed to be all about. Now we have a dead Capitol police officer, and as a retired law enforcement agent, I am even madder today at those who caused this death.
One thing I have learned from personal experience. When you call for a demonstration, you cannot completely control who shows up. Others may share your views but believe in different tactics. Thus, the words and actions of others may bring embarrassment to those who wanted to peacefully assemble and voice their protests. Thousands of patriots who went to Washington to protest peacefully have now learned that lesson. The media, the Democrats and the left are now having a field day smearing everyone, especially Trump. If you thought conservatives had a target on their backs and their free speech rights were endangered before, just wait until the Democrats take control on January 20. But take power they will. It's done and all we can hope for, however naively, is that what went on November 3 will be fully investigated. If it was, indeed, an honest election, so be it. We at least need to know- not for Trump's sake, but for the sake of our democracy.
Speaking of Trump, does he bear any responsibility for what happened? I have read the text of his speech. It was pretty much the same speech he has been giving for a long time. Was it the wrong speech at the wrong time given what ensued? It is easy to conclude that. Perhaps, he should have recognized the potential for trouble and simply told the crowd to make their way home at that point rather than ask them to walk to the Capitol. In a legal sense, I don't see him guilty of incitement. He didn't tell them to break into the Capitol. He didn't tell them to shut down the proceedings. Did he fire them up when he said things like, "We're not going to stand for it?" Probably. But the idea of holding him criminally liable for incitement after he leaves office is insane. The legal standards for such charges are pretty high.
In hindsight, it would have been great if his police and intelligence sources had determined that some wrong-minded people were out there and that they should not be encouraged to march to the Capitol. Should the police and security have been beefed up knowing that there were thousands of angry people in town on the same day that Congress was debating and certifying the election results? It appears so.
I still think that in the coming days and weeks, we will have a better idea of whether or not Antifa-types were involved. Thus far, none of the people identified as yet fit that category. It comes down to this: Whoever took part in breaching the Capitol needs to be prosecuted, whatever their political ideas, whatever their motivations. We can-and should- point out the hypocrisy of the media and the left in not having expressed the same moral outrage and indignation this past summer when our cities were burning at the hands of left-wing mobs, but that doesn't make what happened in Washington this week right.
8 comments:
You got so close...but if you're condemning these actions and not condemning Trump, you are missing the point.
He absolutely incited it. He's been fanning the flames for weeks, and so have the likes of Cruz, Giuliani, etc. Did any of this really shock you? Because it sure as heck didn't shock me.
Yes, absolutely all forms of violence should be condemned. And when there's a leader that's inciting the violence, which is exactly what we have here, that person should be condemned.
Come on. You know it's true. Trump is a traitor, and his cult of followers are traitors. You know that the woman who died hoped to assassinate Pence, right? What makes you think that they wouldn't eventually turn on you - who isn't all on board with their tactics?
For Trump to do the right thing, he needs to concede and stop repeating these baseless allegations of voter fraud, and he needs to take responsibility for stirring up his followers. Not only that, word is that they're prepared to strike again on inauguration day. Trump needs to speak out about it right now because there's no way he doesn't know about it.
But he won't.
Because this is what he wants.
Did you see that picture of the guy bringing in the Confederate flag into the capitol building? And the people taking down the American flag and replacing it with the Trump flag?
This is a cult.
I don't think that you're in this cult.
But you need to stop enabling it.
Anonymous,
Well, you're close too but no cigar.
Say what you want about Trump and those who breached the Capitol. Incitement can be a matter of opinion, but in a legal sense it's a high bar to cross, As I said, there are some things Trump should not have said, but I don't think he crossed the legal line. Whatever Trump is, and he is many things, he is not a traitor. The people who breached the Capitol area disgrace for their actions, but again, I think traitor is too strong a word. It was a criminal riot, but I would not call it an insurrection.
I agree that Trump needs to concede and give it up. At the same time, we need to have tighter voting procedures including voter IDS and a halt to mail-in ballots unless people who are ill, infirm or out of town need an absentee ballot. The current system-pushed by Democrats- is an open invitation to voter fraud.
As for what plans these people may have for the inauguration, I have not heard anything. No doubt this time the security will be heavy-if they hold a public inauguration, and those who try to disrupt it or riot in Washington should be quickly arrested. By the way, I seem to recall a riot in Washington during the last inauguration-remember? Did you condemn that one? Did you condemn that braindead Madonna when she fantasized publicly about blowing up the White House?
We can both agree that our country is in serious danger. In my 75 years, I have never seen it so bad, and people on both sides can share the blame. The right to protest is sacred, but violence must be quickly cracked down on -no matter which side does it.
Let's be clear.
What just happened wasn't a riot. It wasn't a protest.
It was a violent insurrection against the government, fueled by the rhetoric of one man who can't accept that he lost. His accusations were completely groundless no matter how much you, "Yeah, but still..." this.
Anonymous,
When I lived in Thailand, I experienced two coup d' etats/attempted coups. I know an insurrection when I see one.
So, storming the capitol, taking down the flag and replacing it, and actively seeking to assassinate the VP (among others) in order to overturn an election?
And didn't you call the impeachment a coup? That's a legal process outlined in the law.
That's an attempted coup but this isn't?
Do you even believe what you're saying?
There have been over 80 arrests. Has anybody been charged with insurrection? As far as plotting to kill Pence, I will await further evidence of that.
If you are referring to reported chants of "Hang Mike Pence", let find out more about that. Does that indicate an actual plot to kill Pence as opposed to a few hotheads chanting something despicable? I think we both need to know more. If in fact someone there was intending to kill Pence, then I would call that an insurrection and I think a conviction could be obtained for insurrection if you can prove there was a plot or conspiracy to do that.
You need more than the people shouting "Hang Mike Pence"? And this was shortly after Trump called him out for refusing to toss out the electoral votes.
You know that there are five dead people, right? One of them a cop. This was a violent mob. Bombs and guns have been found. As for Pence, security sure saw it as an imminent threat against him.
Be honest. If the situation was EXACTLY the same, but these were left-wing, would you be saying the same thing?
(I would. I really despise Pence, but I don't want him killed. Voted out? Yes.)
The one thing that I find really scary is how many of these people posed for pictures, almost oblivious to the idea that they were doing something illegal. At least the left wing nuts have the sense to wear a mask and hide their identity.
It's almost like these people felt like they had the approval of some sort of authority...
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