This article first appeared in New English Review.
Since I was rooting for Vice President Pence to wipe the floor with Kamala Harris in the vice-presidential debate Wednesday night, there were times when I wanted to scream at the TV. But I am the eternal pessimist, and it seems Pence got better grades from the professional pundits than I gave him. In the end, it all came down to whom the pundits were rooting for as to who did better.
I was frustrated by Pence's tendency to talk way past his allotted time and the tendency of both candidates to avoid answering the specific questions asked of them. As for the moderator, Susan Page, while she conducted herself in a more professional manner than Chris Wallace, she didn't ask a lot of red meat questions-especially to Harris.
Pence came off as stiff and wooden, but that is his style. Harris showed more passion, but at the same time, came across to this male chauvinist pig as abrasive as she put on her condescending smile and laughed at virtually everything Pence was saying. But then again, that is her style.
Aside from her non-verbals, Harris's biggest mistake was studiously refusing the question as to whether she and Joe Biden intended to "pack" the Supreme Court if they won the election.
I think my biggest disappointment was the absence of pointed questions to Harris by either Pence or Page as to her biggest weaknesses. For example, when she pointed to her record as a prosecutor, Pence jumped on that to talk about incarceration rates for blacks in San Francisco while she was DA. What he missed was the opportunity to point out that she refused to seek the death penalty for any murder case. When the subject turned to race, Pence missed the chance to point out that Harris had recently told an interviewer (Stephen Colbert) that the "protests" would not stop and should not stop. Most glaringly, Pence did not bring up the fact that Harris had excoriated Biden during the primaries by implying that he was a racist and a sexual predator to boot. For that matter, that would have been an excellent question for Page to ask, but it was pretty clear she would not do so. Pence did, however, score points by pointing out Harris' opposition to fracking and her and Biden's promise to raise taxes.
Of course, the mainstream news media continues to demonstrate that they are on the side of Harris and Biden. Most embarrassing was ABC's "Fact-checking", which either forgot that Harris was on the stage or thought that everything she said was the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So much for "fact-checkers".
All in all, after watching this event on TV, I am ready for some more Trump vs. Biden. Seriously however, this debate was important in that given the health and age of both Trump and Biden, it is increasingly likely that whoever is vice president will ascend to the presidency in the next presidential term. The thought that it could be Kamala Harris fills me with dread. Though the debate probably didn't change many minds, it was vital that the public get a complete picture of just who she is. I'm not sure that was accomplished.
11 comments:
Susan Page is writing a biography about Nancy Pelosi. “made Speaker: Nancy Pelosi, Lessons in power.”
Over 200,000 dead Americans, and you're, "Yes, let's have more of this."
How bad do things need to get until you join conservatives like Bill Kristol, Joe Walsh, Dennis Kucinich, etc. and realize what a complete disaster the Trump Presidency has been?
When are you going to feel embarrassed about your goofy MAGA selfie? Are you even capable of feeling embarrassment? Or are you going to be like Julius Streicher and remain loyal after the end?
Or did some anonymous poster like myself just make you dig in even deeper?
Anonymous,
I only posted this so everyone can see how ignorant you are. First of all, Dennis Kucinich is no conservative and never has been. Kristol is a Rino, and I'm not even sure who Joe Walsh is.
As for my goofy maga hat, it isn't a maga hat at all. It reads, "Make UCI great again".
And Julius Streicher? You have to be kidding? How in the world did you ever drag that dead dirtbag into the discussion? By the way, I know more about Julius Streicher than you ever will
Do yourself a favor, and remain anonymous. You are pretty pathetic. I sense you spent a few too many years in college. Or are you perhaps, a professor?
Ah yes, attacking the educated. That was a favorite tactic of the Nazis too. Or maybe you're more influenced by Stalin? I'll take your word for it that you know more about Streicher than I do, but it's clear that you haven't actually gained any wisdom from your knowledge.
7.64 million cases, 213,000 dead
Maybe focus on that.
If you want more Republicans who have endorsed Biden, check this out:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/09/27/all-the-republicans-who-have-endorsed-joe-biden-for-president/#72c62ee17340
I guess just like the others, they're not true Republicans either. Just like Trotsky, Buhkharin, etc. weren't true Bolsheviks/Communists.
I guess being a Republicans is synonymous to being a Trump supporter in your eyes and anyone who wavers from this loyalty is some sort of a traitor.
You're in a cult.
My apologies about your hat. You win that round.
(I think this guy is coming around. Now if I can just break it to him that cults don't win elections.)
Do you consider the Nazis to be a cult?
I do.
And they won elections.
Are you really this naive?
Okay, we can agree that they were cult-like. Trump inspires that same sort of devotion. Obama did too, to some extent, but he didn't play up on it the way Trump does. (Holding rallies during a pandemic is a pretty glaring example of what we'd expect of a doomsday cult.)
The thing is, I'm not going to try and tell you that the Democrats aren't corrupt, but to think that they're somehow worse than Trump is completely losing the plot. How many of his associates have been arrested now? And just look at his record. He has a long history of not paying people, ripping off charities, lawsuits, etcetera.
It's like talking about Nazi atrocities but somehow saying that we were just as bad, if not worse, because of Dresden. (Actually knew a guy who tried to argue that with me.)
And again, look at how the Trump administration has handled this pandemic. Do you really not see it? Do you not think it's absolutely insane that we don't even have a national plan? That Trump disbanded the pandemic team?
Do you think it would be as bad if we had Clinton as our President? Would she have disbanded the pandemic team? Would she mock people for wearing masks? Would she insist on people taking drugs that don't work, thereby causing a shortage of it for people who actually DO need it? (Interesting how his doctors didn't give him hydroxychloroquine even though he's been touting it as a "cure".)
I didn't like Bush, but I would have replaced Trump for him if I knew this pandemic would happen.
Could you at least give me that? That Bush would be better?
Don't misunderstand. It would still be bad, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.
Come on, Fouse. Do you need somebody close to you to die of this thing before you wake up? Have you ever seen this many party members endorse the candidate for the other side in your life? Don't you think that there's maybe a good reason for that?
Anonymous,
Look, I have stated many times that on a personal level, I think Trump is a jerk. I don't agree with his twitter statements and a lot of things. He is a flawed man.
But he is not the boogyman his opponents make him out to be. I do not think he is a racist and certainly not an anti-semite. I also am comfortable saying that he had nothing to do with that whole Russian collusion stuff. Yes, the Russians meddled, just as we have done to other countries elections, but Mueller failed to show any part on Trump and his campaign-in spite of a concerted effort to take him down by people in the former WH, FBI and CIA. That was shameful and criminal.
As for Bush, he was not that controversial and overall did a fair job.
As for Hillary Clinton, I could take the same tact with you and list all the horrible things I think she would have done as president. She is much more corrupt than Trump ever thought of being.
What you don't understand about the Trump phenomenon is that conservative voters were so sick of electing Republicans who did not fulfill their campaign promises. Then along comes Trump and upsets the apple cart. He talked differently than a politician, and he has kept his promises except for those the Dems have road blocked at every turn. Many of us conservatives may not like his style, but if he is a jerk, he's just another jerk in Washington, which is full of jerks-including Joe Biden.
The problem with your side is that who have you presented as an alternative to Donald Trump? HIllary Clinton and Joe Biden-not to mention Kamala Harris, who will be waiting in the wings to step in when Joe can't continue. Are you really going to attack all the people like me who have chosen not to vote for Hillary or Joe? C'mon, Man!
It's interesting that you defend him for not being a racist or anti-semite when I didn't even mention that.
Why do you think that racist groups have advocated for him and considered him to be one of them? Never mind what Democrats, liberals, whatever think. Why do the avowed racists think that?
Conservatives will call pretty much every Democrat a socialist/Communist/Marxist, but all of the avowed socialists/communists/Marxists disavow them and say that they don't represent their values. (Let's set aside Democratic socialists like Sanders, AOC, etc, which is socialism in the same sense that many of our European allies are socialist and not the same thing as Bolshevism or what have you.)
People accused Bush of being a racist, but I don't remember him getting the endorsements from the Klan and other white supremacist groups.
Is it all some big conspiracy?
I have friends who say that anyone who's denouncing those who say that Trump isn't a racist as being either stupid or racist themselves.
I don't think that either is the case for you.
But I do think that you're not seeing something that a lot of people are seeing, and there has got to be a reason for that.
I was about to post reasons/evidence. Would you even be willing to look at it? Are you open to the idea that maybe he is one?
I imagine that the thought of supporting a racist is an awful one for you. But would you rather admit a mistake and change or keep on making the same mistake?
The comparison to antifa doesn't work for a number of reasons.
First of all, Biden was correct in saying that it's an idea and not an organization. Unless you can show me otherwise, I know of no antifa leaders, headquarters, official memberships, etc. It simply means "anti-fascism". I'm antifa in that regard, as I imagine you are as well. There is no Proud Boys equivalent of antifa.
Are there people who commit violence in the name of antifa? Sure. Are those ones identifying as Biden/Harris supporters? Not that I can tell, and from what I know of actual extreme leftists, they probably can't stand them. I can tell you that I've gotten into some heated debates with the antifa types who condone violence, even though I consider myself antifa. They're pretty awful.
Biden and Harris have clearly condemned violence and looting, which is good enough. The reason why white supremacy doesn't compare is because it's an awful ideology no matter what. Non-violent racists aren't much better than the violent ones. However, non-violent antifa do things like vote and hold peaceful protests.
Don't you think it's problematic that Trump and company have gotten us to see anti-fascism as an enemy?
Your example with Trump and Duke lacks context. Initially, he hemmed and hawed and pretended that he didn't know who Duke was. (Even though he's on record years before showing that he definitely knows who he was.)
You ask a good question. What would it take to accept that Trump isn't racist. You're right. He has condemned it.
But that's not good enough for me for a few reasons. One, because every time he does, he has to be pressured into it and acts like a child who has to eat his vegetables even though he already ate some the day before.
What I would need is for him to specifically apologize for and condemn his past racist actions and statements. I'm talking about birtherism. I'm talking about his insistence on executing the Central Park Five. I'm talking about how he was sued by the government for discriminating against black people. I'm talking about calling Mexicans "rapists". I can go on if you want.
It's one thing to say that you condemn racism, but his actions and the rest of his words say otherwise.
So again, why do you think that white supremacist groups see Trump as one of their own? Why did the Proud Boys celebrate when he told them to "stand by"?
First of all, while antifa is what I call a movement (or an idea if you insist) Italians have said the same about the Mafia-that it is an idea not a formal organization. You are right when you say it has no formal president, Hqs, etc, but I can assure you that there is a network of people coordinating across state lies to spread violence and mayhem. That is a crime (possibly under RICO) and I can assure you the present Justice Department is investigating those people for future prosecution under the conspiracy statutes. Of course, if Biden is elected the new AG will drop the investigation.
Like you, I consider myself anti-fascist. Antifa, in spite of its name, uses fascist methods to get their point across. They do the same in Europe. Peaceful protest is not their way of doing business.
Is Trump a racist because he raised the Obama birth issue? No, though I never subscribed to it. Is he a racist because of what he said about the Central Park 5? No. I was also outraged by that incident, and I am not 100% convinced to this day that they were innocent. Does that make me or anyone else a racist?
I also, like you, think that black lives matter. The organization, however, is Marxist, anti-Semitic and anti-American. Many of them have been involved in the violence. Thus, I do not support the organization BLM.
As for Trump, he was a public figure for decades before he ran for president. He never had a reputation as a racist then. He even got community service awards from Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. I agree he does act childish at times and he has made what I call inartful comments about illegal Mexican immigrants and other issues. He is not a politician and he is not articulate. He cannot control who supports him any more than Biden can control who supports him. Harris recently made comments about how the "protests" will and should continue.
We can back and forth all you want (as long as we stay civil) about Trump vs Biden. With all their flaws, it comes down to what kind of America do we want to have. It's a conservative-liberal divide, and I am conservative. Do I often wish that Pence were president? Yes. Then we could avoid all the polemics. But when faced with a choice of Trump vs H Clinton or Trump vs Biden (who is going senile in case you haven't noticed) and a radical like Harris ready to step in as president when Biden has to resign (which I predict), then I go with the guy who is in line with my conservative point of view.
I don't know where you live, but I lived in the DC area for about 10 years due to my govt service. I can tell you there aren't too many heroes there. It is a political swamp with a lot of people who are so self-important they think they are saving the world. Sadly, it is becoming more vicious and more corrupt. You can say one party is more to blame while I say the other party is more to blame. What I hope for at least is that we could have an honest govt.
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