"Independent scholar with a PHD from Princeton"
Hat tip to Daily Free Press (Boston University)
Ever since De Paul University realized that professor Norman Finkelstein was an academic fraud and cut him loose, Normie has been reduced to making the speaking tour of various universities, where he denounces the state of Israel. (He is a one-trick pony.) The last time he came to UC Irvine (which was a disaster for him ), the Muslim Student Union could only advertise him as an "independent scholar with a PHD from Princeton".
Most recently, this pathetic clown spoke at Boston University in spite of a petition that asked that he be banned from speaking.
http://dailyfreepress.com/2011/12/01/pro-palestine-activist-speaks-despite-petition-student-criticisms/
I am a bit concerned that an effort was launched to stop Finkelstein's appearance. No matter how ridiculous Finkelstein is, he has his right to speak. Having seen him twice at UC Irvine and having confronted him, I firmly believe that it is a tactical mistake to try and stop him from expressing his nonsensical views.
What is better is to prepare for his appearance by researching his past statements, knowing his position, and engaging him with well-thought out questions or comments during the Q and A. To be sure, a poorly thought out question will flop, and he can eat you for breakfast. Finkelstein is a bully, especially when interacting with inexperienced, younger students. Like most bullies and most defective thinkers, he can be made to look like the fool that he is.
There is a reason why Finkelstein is not employed in some university. Even academia, which is infested with nutty, left-wing professors, realizes that Norman Finkelstein is an academic fraud, who can only bring embarrassment to their institution. That is a pretty low bar-or high bar-depending on your point of view.
My advice is not to ban Finkelstein. That is the tactic of the left. Do your homework and bring him down during the Q and A. He is highly vulnerable.
89 comments:
I'm beginning to feel that speakers like this are preaching to the already converted. It is hard for me to conceive of anyone so stupid as to be persuaded by Finkelstein. Then again we are talking about left leaning college students and teachers as well as the MSU community. They will pick up some new lies which they adopt as truth.
It's a shame the schools' standards are so low. .... a real shame. These kids will never know how great America was and could be. For all too many of them all they know of WWII, for example, is that we interred the Japanese and dropped the atom bomb. I think that must be what they teach now.
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He should have and was allowed to speak. I disagree with his perspective.
He only gives the Arab narative perspective and does not present a complete picture.
The students who didn't want allow him to speak should have noted this and pointed out that Finkelstein likes to cite research from people like Benny Morris.
And Morris has called him out for distorting facts from his research and misrepresenting his findings.
He has been called out by others too for being a dishonest historian.
In January 2009, Fink came to UCI and spoke at a completely one-sided event called Whither the Levant. He stated that Morris used to be a historian, but turned into a propagandist. I have read one Morris book. I am not qualified to judge Morris, but he certainly is more impressive than Fink.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8HRYWaSgio
Finkelstein talking about the new anti-semetism on Russian TV about a year ago. This ties in with the other post by Gary.
Finkelstein does not come off to good to me and he is using brought on there to share the Arab perspective in a very positive light.
If you ever see him in person, you will see he is bad news. He is an arrogant flake with a twisted sense of reasoning.
"....arrogant flake with a twisted sense of reasoning. " Really interesting description, Gary, I think you captured the essence of the breed.
We should make it an acronym, like AFWTSOR, which would say it all economically ... like ROPMA.
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I see lots of negative characterization of Professor Finkelstein yet not one bit of detail as to how these were arrived at.
Finkelstein has painstakingly exposed many prominent Americans has frauds and liars. Read his book on Dershowiiz's "Beyond Chutzpah" for an example of this. Hence they have spent much time and effort attacking the messenger to avoid having to deal with his message. And it seems to be working if one reads the comments found here.
You can see posts here right here like my report on the whither the levant event at UCI in Jan 09, where Fink denied reports of anti-Semitic hate sppech at Pro-Palestinian rallies, which are on on YouTube or when he refused to sign a faculty letter from jewish teachers at UCI protesting anti-Semitism. It's on video. Just search Fink on this site.
"I see lots of negative characterization of Professor Finkelstein yet not one bit of detail as to how these were arrived at."
Morris on Finkelstein.
http://tinyurl.com/82whqde
- anon1
Anonymous,
I refer you again to the the two postings I mentioned.
Of course speakers like this are preaching to the converted. Who else would listen to such tripe? He has a right to speak -- and if a group on a campus want to invite him they have a right to do so -- but he doesn't have the right to an invitation. If the university invited him, I wouldn't even consider it out of bounds for students to petition that the university withdraw the invitation. The petition, of course, is not the final word, and any campus organization could invite him anyway.
Suppressing speakers is a tactic of whoever feels dominant at the moment. In the 1940s and 1950s, it was the McCarthyites who attempted to ban anyone remotely thought to be "leftist." The screw is no prettier because of which way it turns.
Maybe someone, anyone, could present some argument as to why all this characterizations of Fink as "being an arrogant flake with a twisted sense of reality" are true. And references to other sources that make the same unsubstantiated claims are not it.
Also, why should anyone have to sign a faculty letter from Jewish teachers pro-testing anti-semitism?
Anti-semitism as a major issue in the USA in 2011? Talk about standing reality on its head. You know who should be walking around campus and elsewhere in fear in the USA in 2011? Try Muslims, blacks, latinos. The fact that wealthy, privileged Jewish students are in fear is a testament to the way they have been raised and has no basis in actual events.
And, finally, even if Fink were a nut, does this give Jewish groups the right to threaten the president of their college, fellow students, and a specific professor is Fink is allowed to speak? if you think I am making this up, google Fink at Northeastern and read the letter the Jewish students submitted. They seem awfully arrogant for people who are in such fear
Anonymous,
As I stated in my post, I don't think Fink should be shut down. he should be exposed. Part of that exposure is letting him appear and then challenging him in the Q and A. I have heard him speak twice at UC Irvine. I stand by what I said about him. The guy is a joke.
I also maintain that jewish students are exposed to more hate on university campuses in North America than any other group. The UC San Diego flap aside (a mysterious flap indeed), I don't see blacks being harassed on campuses-certainly not UCI-though there are few. Nor do I see latinos harassed though I'm sure you will find some anecdotal evidence somewhere. Nobody should be harassed. The fact is that political correctness reigns supreme on campuses. Unfortunately, PC doesn't much address jewish concerns. I have seen anti-Semitism on the UCI campus. It is the only form of hate I have seen here thus far.
Some Jews are rich and hold good jobs but that doesn't mean all Jews hold good jobs and are powerful positions.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2010/narratives/hate-crime-2010-incidents-and-offenses
FBI stats on hate crimes for 2010
Religious bias
Hate crimes motivated by religious bias accounted for 1,409 offenses reported by law enforcement. A breakdown of the bias motivation of religious-bias offenses showed:
■65.4 percent were anti-Jewish.
■13.2 percent were anti-Islamic.
■9.5 percent were anti-other religion, i.e., those not specified.
■4.3 percent were anti-Catholic.
■3.8 percent were anti-multiple religions, group.
■3.3 percent were anti-Protestant.
And look above the link I posted on Morris on Fink. Fink goes in with an opinion and then cherry picks facts to back up his opinion. Real historians look at what happened and explain it the best they can.
anon1
Public speaking is one best art of any human being. Infact speak is something through which he is known.
Sample Statements
Jaylen,
Could not pull up your sample link. I'm not sure what your point is, but if you show me and good public speaker-I will show you-a good public speaker-nothing more, nothing less.
I do not consider Fink to be a good speaker. He drones on incessently in a flat monotone. In short, he is boring.
I looked it up and saw that the FBI stats do show more hate crimes against Jews than Muslims in the USA.
Of course, one must keep in mind this is the same group who is charged with infiltrating mosques and creating crimes so as to entrap more gullible Muslims.
What any of this had to do with the attempts by Jewish groups to shut down speech that does not support the Zionist ideology, I do not know.
Given the more than obvious fact that the Muslims in the USA are much more under attack than are Jews -- can anyone really doubt this? -- one can only conclude that the crimes against Jews are greatly overstated and those against Muslims under-reported.
Basically, arguing with a Jewish student on campus about Israel get reported as a hate crime while assaulting someone for being a Muslim does not
"What any of this had to do with the attempts by Jewish groups to shut down speech that does not support the Zionist ideology, I do not know."
Gary said he was against trying to prevent him from speaking. I also believe it was wrong to try to prevent him from speaking.
I don't agree with Finkelstein and think he distorts things but think he should be be able to speak.
I don't know who you are arguing with on this point.
Anon1
Who
It seems we have two anonymouses here. I stated in my original post that I don't think people should try to keep Fink from speaking. He has the right to show the world what a boob he is. Other points have come up for discussion on this thread, and it seems by two different people.
For the record. I do not believe in preventing anti-Israel speakers from appearing. I have listened to many at UCI, and when appropriate, I try to challenge them during q and a. The question can be asked as to why exactly some are so opposed to Israel and say nothing about the lack of human rights of Israel's neighbors. Why is there such a double standard? Are all who oppose Israel anti-Semitic? No, but many are, and it eventually comes out.
Gary,
You are arguing with someone who is conditioned to seeing the world through the lens of the victim.
They don't believe the statistics because it does not conform to their view of the world so they reject the statistics. They have the sense that there are lots of crimes against Muslims because that is what they have been told by all the Muslims around them. They assert with complete certainty that Israel "occupies" Palestinian land and refuse to acknowledge that the West Bank is disputed land. Israel has more rights of sovereignty than the Arabs. They refuse to acknowledge that the 9/11 horrific terrorist attack on America by Muslims just might be the cause of some suspicion by Americans. They should listen to a Malik Ali rant and understand that alone would be the basis of suspicion. This is compounded by the fact that he is invited to speak on campus year after year.
Anonymous expresses the widespread jealously of Israel in the Muslim world. They forget of the hostility toward the US n the Muslim/Arab world and can't connect the well known support of the US by Israel.
I hope Anonymous and the whole Muslim world wakes up someday and figures out that the victimology and hatred strategy has not worked. The whole Middle East, with the sole exception of Israel is a cesspool of hatred, ignorance, and poverty. The Muslims in the US are an angry, jealous, subculture that are clearly anti-American in many ways that the Jews are not.
They ought to make peace and see what the benefits a normal and peaceful relationships could be for all of them.
Miggie is pretty funny.
She subscribes to the belief that American jews are the most victimized group in the USA -- yes that very group that is by all measures the wealthiest, most privileged and influentual group in America today -- yet thinks that those who do not buy this hokum are "someone who is conditioned to seeing the world through the lens of the victim".
This is a perfect example of projection in which you project your own mindset onto others.
We see hear on display all the timeless, classic Zionist strategies employed by Midge. All in one comment
1. "I haven't played the victim card. You claim the FBI statistics are misleading" She refers to FBI stats that "prove" the Jewish people are by far the group who face the most hate crimes in the USA -- but then claims to not play the victim card. This is called having your cake and eating it too.
2. "Then again, if you believe everyone is biased against you for no reasons, then all ridiculous theories are possible." This is classic projection. I, of course, am not a Muslim and therefore would have no reason to think everyone is biased against Muslim. But Midge once again goes old school and assumes anyone who does not buy into the Zionist propaganda must be a Muslim.
3. "The number of victims of Muslim terror worldwide is another element that you choose to ignore in your equation". This is called changing the topic of discussion.
4. "Second of all, the recent death toll in Syria of Arabs and Muslims civilians caused by the Syrian regime is well over 3,000 and far higher than the number of mostly Palestinian terrorist combatants that were killed in Operation Cast Lead in Gaza, even by the Palestinian claims". This is a classic stew comprised of changing the topic, out and out lies ("mostly Palestinian terrorist combatants that were killed in Operation Cast Lead in Gaza")and an attempt to excuse horrific actions by Israel by pointing to other people, other places, and other times where horrible things were done -- as if this somehow excuses Israel's crimes.
5. "There is more than a little conditioned hate is in operation here". She finishes up with yet another perfect example of projection.
Midge is a man?
And a grown one at that.
Now that is frightening.
As far as his being wise, well, coming from you and having read what both you guys have to say, I think we can all see that is true
Anonymous,
It never was Midge in the first place. Maybe that's a translation from Russian, who knows?
So are you admitting we are right and you are wrong, or do you just have trouble expressing yourself in English?
Apparently Mr. Fouse is unaware of a phenomena known as sarcasm. Or perhaps just unable to recognize it.
Anonymous,
I am a master of sarcasm. You, on the other hand, are incapable of expressing yourself in a coherent manner.
See what I mean, Gary? It is a colossal waste of time and effort to argue with Idiots and ROP True Believers on the internet.
I know you can't do it, but I have figured out a way that emails to me about blog posts that have certain names go immediately to my trash folder without my having to see them. It saves me some aggravation.
I would do the same thing with "Anonymous" but there are several of them here and a few with coherent statements. The others have an unshakeable anti-Semitic/anti-American worldview they get from their mother's milk, which gets reinforced in their schools, in their circle of friends, and even by their roll models.
Nothing, no matter the source, or the evidence available to all, will change one notion of theirs. Basically, as I say, it is a waste of time and even hope that if you can just point out even one indisputable fact they will budge from their preconceptions. It is not to be and a real shame.
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Here is what I meant about a waste of time. Anonymous wrote, "Apparently Mr. Fouse is unaware of a phenomena known as sarcasm. Or perhaps just unable to recognize it."
First of all, sarcasm is not a phenomena, which indicates Anonymous doesn't know what those words actually mean.
"Or perhaps just unable to recognize it." is not even a sentence.
So you have to make sense of of it all just to get to understand the seething worldview underneath it all. It is just not worth the effort.
Some ESL teacher along the way failed to impart the elements of a sentence. I hope you don't have to deal with this kind of illiteracy at the college level.
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It would seem we can add the adjectives defensive and petty to the personas of Ms. Midge and Mr. Fouse.
And cowardly as we see their need to rely on each other instead of standing on their own to feet in defense of their nonsensical claims.
Of course, no true Zionist dupe can be found without these three particular attributes.
We also can see the lack of reason they bring to the discussion in the prevalence of emotional words and phrases in their sentences.
" distorting facts "
"misrepresenting his findings."
"dishonest historian" "
completely one-sided event"
"a propagandist"
"bad news...an arrogant flake with a twisted sense of reasoning"
"The guy is a joke"
"drones on incessently in a flat monotone"
Etc. etc. You get the idea.
Then there are the truly mind boggling beliefs, so divorced from reality you have to think these two are just saying they believe these thing for shock value.
"For all too many of them all they know of WWII, for example, is that we interred the Japanese and dropped the atom bomb" (as if we don't get a new holocaust story in the newspaper every week, or a new holocaust movie on tv or at the cinema every few months, or a new holocaust memorial or museuam in every major US city).
'jewish students are exposed to more hate on university campuses in North America than any other group"
"I don't see blacks being harassed on campuses... Nor do I see latinos harassed... PC doesn't much address jewish concerns. I have seen anti-Semitism on the UCI campus. It is the only form of hate I have seen here thus far"
"the West Bank is disputed land. Israel has more rights of sovereignty than the Arabs."
And I could go on. That sh8t is just breathtaking in its ignorance.
Anonymous,
Have I ever used the word "diatribe"? I should-in reference to your nonsense.
Sorry, that should have been "role model"
Maybe Midge and GFouse could tell us about all the sponsors who have pulled out of tv shows that portray Jews as ordinary decent people.
Or of all the opposition Jews have faced when trying to build a Temple of Judaic Center in the USA.
After all, they have stated Jews face far more discrimination than do Muslims in the USA
Anonymous,
I am unaware of sponsors pulling out of Tv shows about Jews. There is no need to produce a TV show showing Jews as "normal people". Why is there a need for a TV show to show us that Muslims are "normal people?"
Synagogues don't meet with resistance because they are not used to preach hate against non-Jews and against America and Western society. There is no violence, hate or terror that emenates from synagogues.
Those are your two points, and you should think deeply about the answers.
Yes, it is unfortunate that decent Muslims have to suffer because of the actions of so many of their co-religionists. Constant complaining about Islamophobia does not address the problem we are all facing.
As for Lowe's, doesn't each company have the right to decide who they will sponsor and who they will not? You can disagree. You can say they buckled in to outside pressure. But what kind of action do you really want to see taken against them?
From GFouse's comments on the treatment of Muslims in the USA, it is clear that Zionism needs to be thrown onto the scrap heap of history along with that other race based "ism".
"There is no need to produce a TV show showing Jews as "normal people". Why is there a need for a TV show to show us that Muslims are "normal people?"
Synagogues don't meet with resistance because they are not used to preach hate against non-Jews and against America and Western society. There is no violence, hate or terror that emenates from synagogues."
These disgusting justifications for treating an entire group of people unfairly on the basis of race/religion are purely evil.
Mr Fouse should be ashamed of himself.
As far as no hate coming out of synagogues? Well, that's just silly. Much of the hate mongering against the Muslims originates in such places. You can go onto youtube and see members in gtheir synagogues cheering on such hate mongers as Gert Wilders
(LOL)
Geert Wilders. Hero.
"There is no need to produce a TV show showing Jews as "normal people". Why is there a need for a TV show to show us that Muslims are "normal people?"
Ask yourself why. Which people high jacked airliners and flew them into American buildings? Which people have scores of terrorist attempts against Americans since then? Is a long detailed list really necessary?
"These disgusting justifications for treating an entire group of people unfairly on the basis of race/religion are purely evil."
Really? Who is evil? The terrorists and their defenders or those who have a rational defense against them? Like it or not, the Muslims are unrepentant and continue to blame their demons. They do all those acts (all over the world), they lash out with their anti-American and vulgar anti-Semitism, and can't understand why they are unloved.
ROPMA
Given their blatant racist hatred of the people who had the temerity to be living on the land that the white, European Jews want to claim for themselves, Midge and Fouse will find this latest news to be good news.
"The increasing frequency of the attacks, the sparse number of arrests and absence of indictments have also generated allegations that the Israeli government isn't acting forcefully enough against extremists after two years of violence.
During Wednesday's arrest, police burst into an apartment in a religious neighborhood of Jerusalem. The apartment is next to the Merkaz Harav seminary, a study center that is known as a stronghold of Jewish nationalists affiliated with the West Bank settlement movement.
It was not known whether the suspects were students there, but as they were led away, students and other residents shouted and taunted the police, slashing a tire on one police car and smashing the windshield on another.
The mosque targeted Wednesday has not been used as a prayer site for some time.
The words "price tag" were spray-painted at the mosque – a reference to Jewish extremists' practice of exacting retribution for government action against settlements. Anti-Muslim graffiti such as "Mohammed is dead" and "A good Arab is a dead Arab" was also scrawled at the scene.
Other acts of vandalism were reported in two Palestinian cities in the West Bank, where the military said cars were set afire and hate graffiti was scrawled."
How deep did you have to dig to find that bit of news?
How deep?
A bit. You sure aren't going to get anything negative in our "mainstream" media about the Israeli and Jewish right wingers. Kind of weird for such a picked upon group.
I guess this means youa re okay with these things. Seeing as how your only comment was an attempt to deflect attention away by trying to belittle the messenger with your question as to how deep I had to dig.
The DIFFERENCE you, Anonymous, choose not to even notice was that the ISRAELI Police arrested the suspected Jewish extremists. That is what civilized societies do when members of that society are suspected of commiting crimes. NOT like the so called Palestinians who do not punish their own terrorists and, in fact, name squares and streets after them. A country, a people, can not answer for the deeds of every single member. It can, however, respond in a civilized way when any members of its society does an evil act. The Arabs do not and, in fact, make it worse by teaching hatred in their schools. (This is why it is not a clash of civilizations, It is a the Muslim attack on civilization.)
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2102454,00.html
Every society has its own hot heads and criminals. The real question is how does the organized society, the people, react to their crimes. In one society they punish them and have a great outcry and demonstrate against them and the other illiterate, jealous, seething, poverty stricken, truly sick culture celebrates them.
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Good point, Miggie. To that I would add that the IDF also operates within a legal framework and is answerable to a system of Justice, if they do wrong. Hamas and Hezbollah do not.
Here is some more on those Jewish Orgs who never suppot terrorism according to Fouse and Midge. Iy seems these guys never let facts get in the way of their opinion
On the June 18, 2007, a nonprofit organization called the Hebron Fund held a fundraiser on a cruise ship in the Hudson River to support Israel settlers’ occupation of a Palestinian house in the West Bank city of Hebron. Some 250 people paid a minimum of $65 each for the “Cruise ‘n’ Schmooze.” The proceeds went to support the settler who had taken the property from the Rajabi family, who denied the settlers’ claims that they had legally purchased the home.
A year and half later, Israeli police using stun grenades carried out a government order to evacuate a group of some 100 settlers hunkered down in the four-story hilltop. The house had become the center of a crisis when the Israeli government ruled that the building had been illegally seized from the Rajabi family, and ordered the settlers out.
Once evicted, the settlers commenced a rampage that lasted several hours, setting fire to Palestinian houses, olive trees and cars. Twenty-five people were wounded, including a man in critical condition after a settler shot him at close range. A Palestinian Red Crescent official told U.S. Consulate officials that during the riots, settlers stopped an ambulance and defaced the ambulance, painting “let the Arabs die” and covering the red crescent symbol with the Star of David.
The Hebron Fund is just one of more than 40 organizations that have raised some $200 million over a decade in tax-exempt donations for Israel’s West Bank settlements, a project that places them in violation of U.S. foreign policy and international law.
U.S. presidents from both parties have opposed settlements in occupied Palestinian territory since Israel seized the West Bank and Gaza in 1967. Early in his administration, President Obama made settlement expansion a centerpiece of his now-defunct push to renew negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
The State Department reiterated this policy last June, saying in a statement, “Like every American administration for decades, we do not accept the legitimacy of continued settlement activity.”
Despite official opposition to the settlement enterprise from the White House and State Department, the U.S. Treasury gives tax breaks to groups whose sole purpose is to raise funds for the settlements. These groups have collectively raised more than $200 million over 10 years.
Anonymous is a proficient copy and paster. The problem that has inflicted him as well as at least 99% (in my estimation) of other Muslims is a monomaniacal obsession with Israel.
No one in Israel can pass gas with without the Muslims rushing in to breath it all in and write about it. Nothing about any of the Muslim atrocities around the world interest them. Nothing about the way people are treated in Muslim countries mean anything.
The Syrian regime has now killed over 5,000 of their brethren and it means nothing compared to some conflict over a house in Hebron. None of the offenses against Christian, Jewish, and other minorities in Muslim countries right now are as monumentally earth-shattering as some Palestinian claim. Nothing is ever noted about the Jewish homes that were confiscated by the Palestinians in 1948 in Jerusalem.
Incidentally, Anonymous uses the word "occupy" in regard to the West Bank and other areas without understanding that those are disputed territories and that Israel has even more entitlement to than the Arabs.
The settlements are not located in "occupied territory." The last binding international legal instrument which divided the territory in the region of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza was the League of Nations Mandate, which explicitly recognized the right of Jewish settlement in all territory allocated to the Jewish national home in the context of the British Mandate. These rights under the British Mandate were preserved by the successor organization to the League of Nations, the United Nations, under Article 49 of the UN Charter.
The West Bank and Gaza are disputed, not occupied. There was no Palestinian sovereignty in the West Bank and Gaza Strip prior to 1967. Jews have a deep historic and emotional attachment to the land and, as their legal claims are superior to those of Palestinians, it is natural for Jews to build homes in communities in these areas, just as Palestinians build in theirs.
The territory of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was captured by Israel in a DEFENSIVE war, which is a LEGAL means to acquire territory under international law. In fact, Israel's seizing the land in 1967 was the ONLY legal acquisition of the territory this century: the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank from 1947 to 1967, by contrast, had been the result of an offensive war in 1948 and was never recognized by the international community, including the Arab states, with the exception of Great Britain and Pakistan.
The Arabs have simply lived there but that doesn't give them ownership or the right of of sovereignty. The "Palestinians" are no different than the Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, etc.
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Here is something you won't get in the USA mainstream media. You know, that nation where jewish people are under constant assault.
"A U.S.-based research institute published indisputable evidence that Israel stole weapons-grade uranium for its still-undeclared atomic weapons program from a nuclear reprocessing plant in western Pennsylvania.
The Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy (IRmep) released this month a 300-page report detailing the initial findings of a multi-year research project investigating the disappearance of highly enriched uranium from the Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (Numec) in Apollo, Pennsylvania in the 1950s and 1960s.
Grant Smith, the director of IRmep, told The Daily Star that the report includes a broad range of newly declassified and un-redacted government documents from various agencies – including the Department of Energy, Atomic Energy Commission, FBI and CIA – that prove that nuclear material was diverted from Numec to Israel.
“The story at this point is that there is no one smoking gun; there are many smoking pistols lying all over the place that we’ve painstakingly collected,” Smith told The Daily Star.
When contacted by The Daily Star, Zalman Shapiro, the founder and former president of the Numec, strongly denied that any diversion of materials to Israel had ever taken place at the plant.
“The story is fabricated. Absolutely fabricated,” said Shapiro, who is now 91 years old.
Anonymous, try to accept the fact that when a biased website says there is "indisputable evidence" it probably is disputable.
I see you still can't get over the FBI statistics on the number of hate crimes against the Jews. You probably believe that Al Jazeera has better data or that the Jewish Conspiracy controls the FBI.
How you found out, I'll never know but I remember my course in "How to Control the FBI" as part of my World Domination major in Hebrew school.
Anonymous.
Here is some suggested reading for you. It is called "The protocols of the Elders of Zion". It is a world famous book that documents the international jewish conspiracy to control the world. You won't hear about it from the US media. Copies are hard to come by in the US, but if you read Arabic-which I suspect you do- have one of your friends in the Middle East send you a copy. It's still a best seller over there.
Idiot!
Midge and her beau stick their head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge facts that prove their worldview is one big lie.
Come on Midge. You know at some level that Israel, with the help of "American" Jews, created their secret, undeclared, uninspected, and illegal nuclear weapons program via stolen material and technology from the USA.
You at least admit this I hope.
I love the way Midge defends Israel against clearly true accusations.
She compare Israel's theft of nuclear material and technology with "passing gas" and then projects her obsession with Israel onto the messenger bringing the uncomfortable fact about Israel to light.
I guess when you don't have the truth on your side this is what you have to do; not so much to convince anyone else as to protect yourself from the knowledge that your worldview is based on a big lie.
This sounds like Jeff Halper, that idiot who talks about Israel's Spectral dust weapon.
"This sounds like Jeff Halper, that idiot who talks about Israel's Spectral dust weapon."
Now Fouse denies the existence of Israel's nuclear weapons? What other logical inference can we make from Fouse's comment? of course, we are not dealing with the most rational people here.
I suspect he will attempt to deny that he denies the existence of Israel's illegal, undeclared, and uninspected nuclear weapons -- and instead will belittle the messenger who brings news of its existence. Thus he will not actually have to admit it exists, can claim he does not deny its existence, and can avoid dealing with the fact it is clearly undeclared, uninspected, and illegal and stolen from the USA
"If" Israel has nuclear weapons?
Come on Fouse, you know they have them.
Why is it okay for Israel to have hundreds of undeclared, uninspected nukes yet have the right to attack Iran (or get the suckers in the USA to do it for them) because Iran may someday get one in the future?
How about one standard applies to all? The world wearies of the special expemptions for that Light Unto Nations -- you know, the one that is so fond of going on mass killing sprees and then crying they are being picked on.
And I see Midge is still whining about people picking on poor Israel will trying to appear learned via the use of nonsensical phrases like cognitive bias. When you can't support your view with clear and simple statements, blow smoke and attack the messenger seems to be her modus operandi.
The truth about Israel and her American agents will eventually become known to the American public. It is inevitable.
Ah yes.
Those barabric Iranians who have attacked no nation in our lifetime.
And those oh so civilized Israelis. Who have occupied lands taken in war and illegally settled those lands for over 40 years. Who in the past five years have launched murderous assaults on Lebanon and Gaza and murdered nine unarmed activists under the cover of darkness in international waters
Ah yes, the Islamic Republic of Iran, the peace loving Muslims of Iran.... providers of arms, IUDs, rockets, etc. found in the hands of those who killed and maimed US servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as in the hands of Hamas and Hizbollah. That same peace loving country that is trying to create an atomic weapon and says Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.
Anonymous continues to claim Israel "occupies" the land that Israel has as much entitlement to than any other. Israel has an uninterrupted presence (if that's all it takes) there of distinctly Jewish people there for 2,500 years! That's long before there was even a Muhammad.
Here is the definitive statement of the legal status of the West Bank written 20 years ago that is still true today.
http://www.tzemachdovid.org/Facts/islegal1.shtml
The Palestinians claim is based on their "living there." I hate to tell you, Anonymous, but it takes more than that and whining to establish any rights of sovereignty. As Churchill said, "The Arabs have as much right of sovereignty over that land as the dog has to the manger."
You have to do something more. Get your own constitution, your own language, your own identity, buy the land, enter a peace treaty for the land, fight for the land, defend the land .... you have done NONE of those things. The "Palestinians" are indistinguishable from the Syrians, the Jordanians, the Egyptians, etc.. They are not a people or a nation. They don't even have the same recognized President in the West Bank as they do in Gaza.... or foreign minister, finance minister, etc. etc.
But they do have a couple of things.... whiners and liars and they are really good at both of those things. It won't get them any support anywhere but from the peace-loving people of Iran and the other Muslim countries.
Get over that sliver of land that you would like to make Juden-frei... It ain't going to happen.
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Oh Gary. You poor soul. You legitimately buy the Big Lie, don't you?
Kill unarmed activists in international waters under the cover of darkness is fine if Israel is the doer.
Drop bombs and White P onto an unarmed and helpless civilian population in Gaza, killing over 1,000 people -- again just fine as long as Israel is the doer.
Drop millions of cluster bombs onto Lebanon AFTER the ceasefire has been negotiated and will take affect in a few days thus ensuring kids will be getting blown up for years to come -- go Israel.
Throw out any inane justification for horrific actions by Israel and Fouse and Midge gobble it up. The facts must be twisted to support their worldview.
Here is some more hidden gems (i.e., factual items never disclosed in our "mainstream media") about our Great and Wonderful ally Israel.
Between August 26 and September 11 2001, a group of speculators, identified by the American Securities and Exchange Commission as Israeli citizens, sold "short" a list of 38 stocks that could reasonably be expected to fall in value as a result of the pending attacks. These speculators operated out of the Toronto, Canada and Frankfurt, Germany, stock exchanges and their profits were specifically stated to be "in the millions of dollars."
Short selling of stocks involves the opportunity to gain large profits by passing shares to a friendly third party, then buying them back when the price falls. Historically, if this precedes a traumatic event, it is an indication of foreknowledge.
Anonymous,
I got one better than that. My barber has a friend, whose sister-in-law was in NY on 9-11, and swears she saw george Bush parachuting out of the first plane that hit the WTC just before impact. He was picked up by a black limosine on 5th avenue and driven in the direction of Washington. I believe my barber. He woulde never steer me wrong.
Anonymous,
I am beginning to suspect you are Norman Finkelstein himself. If so, I hope you take your meds before you go to bed tonight.
Officials within the Israeli Foreign Ministry expressed official outrage today at the United Nations Security Council for its effort to criticize the “price tag” attacks launched by Israeli settlers against Palestinian civilians.
“The whole debate was conducted in a disgusting manner,” insisted one of the officials saying that they “mentioned every mosque that was torched” during the debate. The resolution to criticize the violence was blocked by the United States.
But while the US blocking mention of Israel at the council is nothing new, they also blocked a criticism of Israeli settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank, and this earned public scorn from all 14 other members of the Security Council.
Israeli officials have warned the European Union that they risk becoming “irrelevant” after publicly criticizing the settlements, and the mention of the “price tag” attacks, a growing concern in Israel as the settlers have moved from burning mosques to attacking military bases, seems to have irked officials particularly.
Duly noted, Norm.
Oh Fousey.
You just don't want to know, do you?
When claims are made about Israel doing things like dropping WP and/or cluater bombs, the first reaction of their automaton supporters is to deny that Israel woudl possibly do such a thing and to attack the messenger as an anti-semite or obsessed with Israel or some such ad hominem that adds nothing to our knowledge.
When it becomes common knowledge that Israel did in fact engage in such horrific behavior, the supporter immediately switches gear into a why it was justified mindset. From Israel would not do such a horrible thing to Israel was fully justified in doing what they did with no stops in between.
What is it about the brain of such loyalists? That they will believe obvious lies and deny obvious truths in order to avoid having to examine their loyalties?
Oh, Anon Mousey,
You sound more and more like Finkelstein, except you are afraid to sign your name-a sure sign of moral and intellectual cowardice, but I'll let that pass.
Israel is in a war for her very existence. people -even innocent people - get killed in wars. Read up on WW 2. Unlike her adversaRIES, Israel and the IDF have a justice system that overlooks and examines what they do-just like the US.
Do you know what the defenders of the Alamo did to those Mexicans who were attcaking them?
They shot them. They killed them. Horrors. At least until they were overrun and killed themselves. Actually, I think the Alamo is a pretty good analogy.
Anonymous, you sound exactly like those UCI MSU shitheads I debate from time to time. They NEVER look at what they admittedly do and go right away to the ALLEGATIONS that all the Muslims believe and would like everyone else to believe.
There is a saying you really ought to take to heart. It is "If there were no lies, there would be no wars."
The Taquiia, or whatever it is in the Muslim religion that permits lying for the sake of advancing Islam is ruinous to your people. The people who make up lies, exaggerate them further, and attempt to communicate them to everyone have the blood of people on both sides on their eternal soul.
This latest series of lies about some unnamed Israelis who shorted stock via some unnamed firms prior to 9/11 is just one more example of the constant flow of lies that flow from the fevered brains of the Islamists.
ALL the terrorist highjackers on 9/11 were Muslim! Those who supported them while they were in the US were Muslim. We know who they are and where they came from. We have their suicide videos! Osama Ben Laden (Piss be Upon him) admitted that they did it. They danced in the streets in Gaza! Now you want to say the Israelis, some unnamed, rumored, people supposedly knew in advance and profited from it????
All your charges are blatant anti-Semitic lies and exaggerations and Muslim baloney. It isn't going to work here. Everyone knows what you are about.
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"All your charges are blatant anti-Semitic lies and exaggerations and Muslim baloney'
Israel does not have an undeclared, uninspected nuclear weapons program.
Of course they do.
And how did they get it? Can you tell me? No? Then how is it that you "know" it was not from material and technology from the nuclear plant in PA run by Mr. Shapiro?
It is a lie that the sales of put options on the airlines in the weeks leading up to 911 were dramatically higher than usual? Of course it isn't. You claim the story about Israeli investors being the buyers is a lie. Then tell us who the buyers were? I see. You don't know. But you know it wasn't Israelis? How do you know this to be a lie?
Israel has not dropped tons of WP and millions of cluster bombs onto civilian populations? Of course they have.
What Midge does not seem to grasp that wanting something to be a lie and it actually being a lie are two different things.
Where are my lies Midge? Try to answer with some actual facts and details.
You have allegations. So what is your proof?
"Israel does not have an undeclared, uninspected nuclear weapons program.
Of course they do.
And how did they get it? Can you tell me? No? Then how is it that you "know" it was not from material and technology from the nuclear plant in PA run by Mr. Shapiro?"
The International Zionist Conspiracy has not confided in me. My guess is they have nuclear weapons, but they acquired and developed it with their own ingenuity, something that is lacking in the Muslim world. If you allege they stole it, what is your proof? I can't prove a negative, that something did not happen. You make the allegation, you supply the proof.
Otherwise it is just more anti-Semetic bullshit.
"It is a lie that the sales of put options on the airlines in the weeks leading up to 911 were dramatically higher than usual? Of course it isn't. You claim the story about Israeli investors being the buyers is a lie. Then tell us who the buyers were? I see. You don't know. But you know it wasn't Israelis? How do you know this to be a lie?"
More of the false reasoning! I don't know that puts were higher pre 911 and if so who were the buyers. You say they were Israelis? What's your proof? You expect me to go find out the names, religions, and backgrounds of all the buyers of puts pre 911? Otherwise the Israelis must be responsible! And I should prove otherwise! You are ridiculous, Read The Looming Towers book and you will learn about who committed the 911 terrorist attack and all the proof you need.
"Israel has not dropped tons of WP and millions of cluster bombs onto civilian populations? Of course they have."
Where is your proof?
How about the rocket attacks on Israel?
How about kidnapping a soldier and not even let the Red Cross see him for years? That is despicable cruelty.
"What Midge does not seem to grasp that wanting something to be a lie and it actually being a lie are two different things.
"Where are my lies Midge? Try to answer with some actual facts and details.".
Again, you can't prove a negative. You must be a brainwashed child You make the allegation, then YOU supply the proof. And defend your Muslim barbaric acts of terrorism while you are at it.
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Midge.
You accused me of lies. I asked how you concluded that I have lied
Read your response.
Your "proof" of my lies are:
"My guess is they have nuclear weapons, but they acquired and developed it with their own ingenuity"
"You say they were Israelis? What's your proof?"
"How about the rocket attacks on Israel?"
Can you really not see that you have not shown anything I have posted to be a lie? That your guesses are all informed by your pre-disposition to view Israel favorably? A pre-dispostion that the Zionists have been instilling into you for a lifetime?
I list documented accusations against Israel, many of them beyond dispute, others that I cannot be sure as they have not seen daylight in the mainstream media. You choose to not believe than when you can and to rationlize them when you cannot dismiss them as lies.
You go by your guesses and gut feelings.
You need to wake-up
Midge.
You accused me of lies. I asked how you concluded that I have lied
Read your response.
Your "proof" of my lies are:
"My guess is they have nuclear weapons, but they acquired and developed it with their own ingenuity"
"You say they were Israelis? What's your proof?"
"How about the rocket attacks on Israel?"
Can you really not see that you have not shown anything I have posted to be a lie? That your guesses are all informed by your pre-disposition to view Israel favorably? A pre-dispostion that the Zionists have been instilling into you for a lifetime?
I list documented accusations against Israel, many of them beyond dispute, others that I cannot be sure as they have not seen daylight in the mainstream media. You choose to not believe than when you can and to rationlize them when you cannot dismiss them as lies.
You go by your guesses and gut feelings.
You need to at least admit that you cannot provide any legit reason for calling me a liar other than you do not like the things I have brought to light.
Anonymous! Obviously, English is not your mother tongue and the British/American system of justice is unfamiliar to you. I don't know how else to explain this so it will be my last attempt. I urge you to think about it.
If YOU make the allegation, then YOU have to supply the proof. It is not up to me to prove a negative, in other words, that something did NOT happen.
Because you have an ALLEGATION that puts sold higher than usual pre 9/11 and that it was Israelis that bought them, and there is a connection to Israel or the International Zionist Conspiracy, then it is up to you to supply the proof. All you say is that it is an allegation and you want me prove something else is the case.
I can ALLEGE that you stole green cheese from the moon.... do I call you a liar because you can't disprove it? I would have to supply the proof.
For example, I wrote that the Palestinians celebrated the terrorist attack on 9/11 in the street. That was my allegation. Here is a video of it as PROOF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
I gave you the book with the reference of all the Muslim fanatics perpetrators of the 911 attack. You can more about who committed the attack at
http://www.9-11commission.gov/ among many other sites.
I have every legitimate right in the world to say you are a liar if and when you make allegations without proof.
Maybe mere allegations against Jews carry a great weight in your Muslim countries but not here. You accept as true every allegation against Israel because that is your view of the world and it fits right in. Unfortunately, it is only shared by the ignorant, illiterate, poverty stricken, backward people of the Islamic world. If you want proof of those statements, let me know... on the condition that you will accept the evidence and not claim, like the FBI data on hate crimes against the Jews, that they are phony numbers.
BTW, as long as you continue to hold the candle for the anti-Semites in the Muslim world, you will continued to be obsessed with Israel and the Jews .... instead of giving it up at long last and trying to make something of yourself. Your choice.
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Actually, Midge, if you accuse me of lying then you at least need to identify what my lies are. And then show them to be lies.
The "allegations" I have listed are in some cases established facts and in others may be disputed but come with documentation.
You seem to think that because the established facts and/or documented claims are not consistent with your worldview that this means either they are lies or that I have not provided proof of their veracity...a standard you do not apply to yourself as evidence by your willingness to label me a liar
"I have every legitimate right in the world to say you are a liar if and when you make allegations without proof."
Two big things wrong with this statement.
1. Allegations made with documentation that is not to Midge's liking are not without proof. Merely with proof that Midge cannot or will not accept.
2. Allegations without proof or with proof Midge does not accept cannot be said to be lies without proof that they are false.
Somehow I don't think Midge will be able to accept the obvious truthfulness of both of these statements.
Anonymous, you know taqiyya well, but it won't work here.
"Questions relating to the 9/11 terrorist attacks will usually be diverted by either making outrageously wild conspiracy claims “the CIA did it to give the U.S. an excuse to attack Muslims,… Mossad was the perpetrator… No Jews came to work at the World Trade Centre on September 11” etc. or by making an irrelevant counter reference to “the plight of the Palestinians”,.. Iraqis,.. colonialism,.. the crusades, or US foreign policy’s support for Israel” as the 'root causes' of terrorism.
Then, of course, there’s the ever popular, specious allegation that George Bush is a bigger terrorist than Osama bin Laden.
Diversionary “tu quoque” response ploys usually start with the words “but” or “what about…?” in an attempt to turn, and transfer an equal culpability back on their interlocutor.
Demanding 'evidence':
Islamic spokesmen practice a form of taqiyya defined in psychology as 'cognitive denial' by repetitive and persistent demands of 'where is the evidence!' and 'prove it!' whenever there is Muslim complicity in terrorist acts, evidence, which they know very well, for security or legal sub-judice restraints, can not be disclosed. If indeed the “evidence” were to be publicly presented, they would then move on to the familiar “prejudicial to the defendant receiving a fair trial--grounds for a mistrial” default position."
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We (Israel) possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets … most European capitals are targets of our air force … the Palestinians should all be deported. Two years ago, only 7 or 8 per cent of Israelis were of the opinion that this would be the best solution, two months ago, (January 2010), it was 33 percent and now according to a Gallup poll, the figure is 44 percent."
-- Martin Van Crevel Israeli, professor of military history at Hebrew University at Jerusalem and top adviser to the Israeli Armed Forces, March 2, 2010.
" Allegations made with documentation that is not to Midge's liking are not without proof. Merely with proof that Midge cannot or will not accept."
Where is the documentation? Assertions are not documentation. "Everyone knows,,," is not evidence.
"2. Allegations without proof or with proof Midge does not accept cannot be said to be lies without proof that they are false."
It is impossible to prove a negative... Unless you can prove a someone else did it. . In the case of 911 the is overwhelming proof that Muslims did it. There is no EVIDENCE that the Mossad or Israel profited on it, knew about it in advance, or "worked with" the Muslims in any way.
Again if I allege you stole green cheese from the moon, you can't prove you didn't. It would be up to me to supply actual PROOF, not the other way around.
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Anonymous, I never heard of this Crevel guy but know that he does not speak for Israel. There is no end to the number of nuts who speak for and to the Islanic world, which cause atrocities like this.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=48367
As I wrote before, Israel probably has nuclear weapons as does the US, France, Great Britian and others. Some others, like Pakistan, and Korea are more problematical. None of them, no national leader besides the Iranian one, to my knowledge has threatened to wipe anyone off the face of the earth. The civilized part of the world has not and does not have any concern that Israel will attack them with atomic or any other weapons. This is not true regarding Iran.
The Muslim world,by both words and actions prove every single day they are warlike, hostile, and uncivilized. iran is not to be trusted under any circumstances. Israel, on the other hand, is a trusted ally of this country and has been steadfast for many years. There is no worry in Europe or the US. from nuclear weapons owned by Israel, no matter what Crevel says, if there is such a person.
I see you have changed the subject from 911 and choose not to deny taqiyya.
(You are right, Gary, it is very easy. As a matter of fact, it is getting boring. It still amazes me how little self awareness they have. The irony of them calling anyone else terrorists or a threat to peace is completely lost on them.)
.
Let's see what those loveable Israeli Firsters have been up to this month.
"On December 14, the House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed the Iran Threat Reductions Act (HR 1905). An amendment to it proposed by Jewish, Isral Firster hawk Ileana Ros-Lehtinen essentially bars US officials from even speaking to the Iranians with minor exceptions.
Several analysts have written that the measure will enhance the threat of war. Intelligence veteran Paul Pillar warned in November that the restriction could block peaceful means of conflict resolution over Iran's nuclear program and "any diplomacy to keep US-Iranian incidents or crises…from spinning out of control”.
Preventing unnecessary catastrophes was exactly what recently retired Admiral Mike Mullen was trying to do when he reiterated calls for engagement with Iran. In September he strongly recommended that the US explore "any channel [of communication] that's open”, adding that "even in the darkest days of the Cold War,” America "had links to the Soviet Union”. Even Secretary of Defence Leon Panetta felt compelled to explain why war should be avoided to a pro-Israel audience at the Saban Center in Washington earlier this month. "The consequence could be that we would have an escalation that would take place that would not only involve many lives, but…consume the Middle East in a confrontation and a conflict that we would regret,” he said.
But as in the run-up to the Iraq War, the political leadership is ignoring sceptical voices regardless of their provenance. Hawkish measures are being furthered at an increasing pace. Last week the administration implied that it would sign into law sanctions against Iran's Central Bank as part of the National Defence Authorisation Act. Representatives from 11 countries dubbed as the "coalition of like-minded countries” are meeting in Rome on Tuesday to also discuss implementing a complete oil embargo. Analysts have written that the Iranians could interpret these moves as "an act of war”.
HR 1905 has been opposed by a group of anti-war US organisations who fear it will "sabotage diplomacy”, including the National Iranian American Council (NIAC). According to NIAC policy director Jamal Abdi, the measures will "punish ordinary people, raise gas prices, and bring the US.and Iran closer to war”.
Top American businesses have also voiced opposition. USA*Engage, an influential coalition of American companies and trade associations said last week that HR 1905 would work against US efforts to build a multilateral coalition on Iran. "Votes like these may satisfy domestic political considerations,” a USA*Engage statement said, "but they actually weaken American leadership and have the potential to unravel the calibrated, multilateral consensus that has been achieved.”
Anonymous, (Er, I mean Norm)
Let's all be sure we don't offend Iran.
Mr. Fouse misses the whole point of the previous comment. Which is the harm being done to the USA by the Israeli Firster designed Iran sanctions. I guess this is something he does not wish anyone to recognize.
Now. let's see what that the Isralei govt, whose only concerns are of course peace and security, has been up to in the last day ot two.
In a Christmas press conference attended by a number of top ambassadors, Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman lashed those critical of Israel’s position on the peace process, while insisting no peace could be achieved within the next decade.
“In the next decade, this will be the situation and we need to know how to deal with it,” insisted Lieberman, saying that ambassadors should focus on “managing” the conflict instead of trying to solve it.
Lieberman also reiterated his condemnation of the European Union for criticizing settlement expansion, saying that the only obstacle to peace with the Palestinians is the Palestinians themselves and that construction would continue.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seems to support the notion that the Israeli government has abandoned the idea of peace, insisting that his government will no longer negotiate with the Palestinians under any circumstances once they form a unity government, something expected within the next few months
All of which means nothing to me. We should squeeze Iran until they revolt and overthrow the mad mullahs. Since the 1979 hostage crisis, I care nothing for Iran. We owe them one.
"All of which means nothing to me".
It's a bit troubling that Mr. Fouse does not care about the welfare and security of the USA but at least he's being honest about where his loyatly really lies.
Now, let's see who the real "invented people" are.
"Newt Gingrich's controversial statement begs the question: Who invented a nationality? The Palestinians or the Israelis?
The state of Israel and the Israeli people were invented from scratch by the Zionist movement It is hard to believe that anyone who defends Israel's legitimacy as a state would buy into former Speaker Newt Gingrich's argument that Palestine is an "invented nation".
The singular triumph of the Zionist movement is that it invented a state and a people - Israel and the Israelis - from scratch. The first Hebrew-speaking child in 1900 years, Ittamar Ben-Avi, was not born until 1882. His father, the brilliant linguist Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, created a modern language for him to speak by improvising from the language of the Bible.
The founder of the Israeli state was Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), an assimilated Viennese writer who was convinced by the Dreyfus trial in France - and the horrendous right-wing anti-Semitism that resulted from it - that Jews had to get out of Europe.
In 1897, he wrote the book that would essentially inaugurate the Zionist movement. It was called Der Judenstaat (meaning "the Jews' state" or "the Jewish State"), which was his proposal for moving the Jews out of Europe and into their own country.
He didn't specify where the Jewish homeland should be. He was more concerned about quickly obtaining territory anywhere for Jews to seek refuge.
Later, he decided that Palestine made the most sense because that was where the Jewish people both began and exercised self-determination in ancient times, and where there already was a small minority of Jews. But he also spoke of finding a place in Africa or the Americas if Palestine was unavailable.
Anon.
Now that you have explained to me how Israel was invented by Zionists at the same time you refer back to Biblical times, pls explain the history of the Palestinian nation, governments, language etc.
More on out great ally:
On 5/11/11 the Section 301 Committee of the US Trade Representative formally received a petition demanding $6.64 billion in compensation for US exporters. In 1984 US exporters were urged to submit business confidential data about their prices, market share, internal costs and market strategy to the International Trade Commission. The USTR guaranteed confidentiality and compiled the data into a classified report for use in negotiating the US-Israel Free Trade Agreement.
The Israeli government obtained the classified USTR report and passed it to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee to use in lobbying and public relations. Declassified FBI investigation files in the petition reveal AIPAC’s legislative director made illicit duplications before returning the report by order of the USTR. The FBI interviewed Israeli Minister of Economics Dan Halpern who admitted obtaining the classified document and giving it to AIPAC.
According to the petition Israel unfairly leveraged the business confidential data stolen from US corporations and industry groups to create new export oriented industries to penetrate the American market. Israel thereby gained an unwarranted systemic advantage.
It seems that this blog site has attracted not just a casual anti-Semite but a full fledged fanatic. Not only does he know the bias in the FBI when it is reporting hate crimes against Muslims, he knows Jewish fundraising episodes in 2007, the complete history of the middle east, the status of Israel's nuclear capabilities, the innocence and good will of the Iranians, the bills passed in favor of Israel in the US congress caused by the Zionist Conspiracy, the utterances of Israeli officials, and even the supposed personal history of early Zionists.
The question is the source of all this anti-Semitism and the kind of anti-Semite this anonymous person is. It seems that he gets a lot of his propaganda and racist ideology from Islamic sites because of his cut and paste proficiency. Beyond trying mightily to discredit Israel and Jews in the US, it seems his animus goes beyond and extends to the elimination of Israel and probably all Jews in the process.
Does he do this for some "redemptive" reason in that Muslims will redeem what is rightfully theirs. No doubt a handsome profit could be made if the Palestinians could just take over Israel, as is ... as they took over the Jewish homes in Jerusalem in the 1948 War of Independence. They could just take over those industries, universities, hospitals, etc. if the Israelis were just gone.
Maybe the economic and social benefits that would follow the elimination of Israel and the Jews is sufficient motivation for all his scholarship and hard work. Perhaps his obsessive motivation is an attempt to mobilize and vitalize the Arab world.
While he knows every anti-Semitic factoid in detail, he seems to be completely unaware and uncaring about the 5,000 Muslim Arabs murdered by the Baathist Regime in Syria. Then again, the Baathists aren't Jews. All the massacres against the Muslims by Saddam in Iraq just don't count as much Operation Cast Lead in Gaza. None of the gays hung in Iran or the stoning of women there are worth any notice.
Eric Hoffer said years ago that Israel is the only country that the rest of the world expects to be Christian.
It's hard to let Anonymous' ridiculous statements go without response: "The state of Israel and the Israeli people were invented from scratch by the Zionist movement It is hard to believe that anyone who defends Israel's legitimacy as a state would buy into former Speaker Newt Gingrich's argument that Palestine is an "invented nation".
The singular triumph of the Zionist movement is that it invented a state and a people - Israel and the Israelis - from scratch."
As a matter of historical fact, there was a nation named Israel populated by Jewish people about 2,600 years ago in that specific area. You could say it was "created" or "invented" at that time but it was done by a unified people very different in many ways from the surrounding people. If you are familiar with the New Testament, you will recall that Christ's last supper was at a Passover Jewish service, NOT an Islamic or "Palestinian" service.
Ben Yahuda modernized an ancient language that has been in constant use by Jews in their prayers for millennia . Obviously there are new terms and items that have to be named. Incidentally, this is another feat that has never been accomplished before.
Israel or Jerusalem is never even mentioned in the Koran but scores of times in the Torah and in the daily Jewish prayers for thousands of years. Obviously, knowing this, you still dispute who is an invented people?
The Palestinians had no self awareness while Jordan occupied the West Bank until 1967! They have no commonality and there is no difference between them and the Syrians, Egyptians, Jordanians, Lebonese, or other Arabs in the region.
Anonymous continues to try to besmirch Israel's position as America's best and most reliable ally. Israel has voted with the US in the UN more consistently than ANY other country. Islamic countries have given sanctuary to Islamic terrorists who have attacked America numerous times. Until you can reverse those facts, Anonymous, your anti Semitism is not going anywhere.
It seems folks like Midge get a bit unhinged when the thread turns from name calling and unsubstantiated attacks on Norm Fineklstein to a listing of facts that show their view of Israel to be a complete fantasy, a creation of a well oiled PR machine.
Let's see what those sick SOBs were up to yesterday.
"Speaking today during the Israeli Army’s “annual telethon” on Army Radio, military Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz pushed for a new invasion of the Gaza Strip saying that it was “not a matter of choice.”
Gantz went on to praise the 2008-09 invasion of the strip, which killed 1,417 Palestinians, the vast majority of them civilians, saying it was an “excellent operation that achieved deterrence.”
That “deterrence” however, Gantz saw as running out “over time,” even though its been less than three years since then and Israel has been bombing the strip regularly throughout that period. He insisted the timing of the new invasion would be dictated by conditions on the ground, and that the military would act “when the conditions are right.”
Anonymous,
I welcome disagreements here, but you are on notice. If you think you are going to use my blog to post a daily anti-Israel news report, go find another blog. From now on, I will use my editorial discretion.
Talk about "unhinged" ... who tunes in to Israeli Army radio, every day?
As a matter of fact, the invasion of Gaza was not a matter of choice before and it may not be a choice in the future. Gazan's must believe they can launch rockets into Israel without consequences. They have a choice to launch rockets or not. Israel must retaliate or there will be more rockets and other kidnapping attempts or suicide bombers.
Any sane person would agree that the operation was an “excellent operation that achieved deterrence.” There are fewer rockets now but even those cannot be tolerated. Once they cross that line of what they are willing to tolerate, the conditions will be right.
Those 5,000 Arab Syrians killed in the last few months remain unmentioned and unmourned in the rest of the Muslim world.
Gary, thanks for filtering out these daily ridiculous observations, always skewed, exaggerated, against Israel and the US. It was becoming a chore to debunk them all.
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I see those American Muslim who face so much less hate from the American public and govt than do those poor picked on Jews had several Centers and other properties firebombed in NYV ocer the week-end
Duly noted and duly condemned. How come you said nothing about the Hindu site that was hit?
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