Now that Pastor Terry Jones has gotten his wish and burned a Koran, he can watch the result in Afghanistan. The below Fox News story has a video clip.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/01/seven-killed-koran-burning-protest-headquarters-afghanistan/
I have two thoughts; First, I think it is about time we give up the ghost of nation-building in Afghanistan. It ain't gonna happen folks. To me, our mission there is no longer anything more than finding and killing Osama bin Laden (who is probably across the border in Pakistan.) Afghanistan is Afghanistan, and nobody can change it. I am no expert, but it seems to me that we can send targeted drones if we detect terrorist sites in Pakistan or Afghanistan. For any more Americans to die in the name of creating a civilized, democratic Afghanistan is lunacy. While we are at it, we can fly over those poppy fields and burn them as we leave.
Secondly, I hope Pastor Jones can rest easy knowing that his demonstration has now led directly to the slaughter of at least 12 people. The lesson to be learned is don't burn the Koran-read it.
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8 comments:
Well said, Gary, all around. Our chances of "nation building" in Afghanistan are about the same as our chances of explaining to that mob that the UN does not rule Florida.
We may, however, have to do something on our way out for the substantial minority that welcomed us, sent their daughters to school, opened little businesses in Kabul... even getting out has its moral dilemmas.
Findalis,
I understand your point of view, but burning Korans is not my cup of tea. You also alienate those Muslims who don't wage Jihad, violent or stealth.
Side note? Do you have my email? I need to communicate with you.
Thanks for the video of the multicultural, different but just as good as ours, society over there.
It happens that in every society you are going to have marginal kooks who will burn Korans or put crucifixes in jars of urine and call it art (which the government will pay for).
The crucial thing is what does the rest of the society do about it? Here they tolerate outrages without burning down anything or wide scale rioting. Gary, you didn't go out and behead anyone or set anything on fire because you didn't like the Koran burning.
In Israel there were storms of protest and demonstrations after that kook shot Muslims in that mosque years ago. It was widely condemned in print and in practice. In the Arab countries, as your video depicted, thousands of people came out to riot in support of the protest!
One society is civilized and the other isn't... sorry Ingrid, this is despite your girlfriends who love life in the Middle East... so they and you say.
It is going to take a long time, much longer than we ever imagined, to get true democracy and a decent society established over there.
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Of course it is Miggie, but that has very little to do with religion. Christian European society used to hang people for questioning the Trinity, and that was well into the Protestant Reformation. Somehow, we managed to overcome that while still reading the Bible. There was a time when priests opposed educating the peasantry, because they might ask inconvenient questions. Now the mullahs are doing the same thing. We got through it. They will too. It's going to be a bumpy ride for a few centuries.
I agree here that our mission in Afghanistan should be nothing more than finding and killing Bin Laden and CO. I also understand and do agree with the last paragraph of Siarlys response. It is a moral dilemma. Some of those folk who supported us in our mission or even just went about the normal human aspirations of pursueing education, opening business, enjoying music, etc. etc. may pay a price when we do leave. That is a shame of course and should be a consideration before we get involved in nation building. Moral dilemma? A big one.
It has everything to do with religion. What you are describing happened five, six hundred years or more ago. Further, it did not have the scope, number of victims, that Militant Islam has today.
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I've been waiting a couple of days to respond to Findalis, because she is partly right, but doesn't quite ring true.
First Amendment jurisprudence does allow for the concept of "fighting words." If I tell you that your mother is a whore and I've slept with her dozens of times, you may not be convicted of a crime if you punch me out and stomp on me. If you are charged with anything, you will get a significantly reduced sentence. Fighting words may even be actionable, civilly or criminally, in and of themselves.
Jones, sitting in the safety of his little church in rural Georgia, deliberately went out of his way to use "fighting words" - in a graphic sense - knowing full well that others, more vulnerable and more in harm's way, would pay the price for it.
It is true that in this country, you can burn our flag without being prosecuted - despite the dissent of John Paul Stevens to the contrary. You can stuff a Torah into the toilet or burn a Qu'ran, and not be prosecuted for it, or even sued. I'm not at all sure that if I went to the county where Jones church is located, and publicly burned a Bible, it would not provoke a small riot. At least, someone would rough me up and leave me some painful bruises. I wouldn't entirely blame them, once I came to my senses.
I would not have published cartoons about Muhammed. The ones that were published were in extremely poor taste, as is Hustler magazine and a lot of other stuff in print. On the other hand, I fully support the leaders of any nation firmly telling any Muslim who doesn't like it that we don't prosecute for blasphemy, period. There are people who put on plays depicting Jesus Christ at the Apostles as engaged in gay group sex, and despite law suits trying to shut it down, it can't be under our law. If you don't like it, draw cartoons of Danish editors. We'll publish those too.
Jones cannot be prosecuted. He can be criticized for banal immaturity and taking gratuitous risks with other people's lives.
Burning a Koran is no excuse for a mob to go on a rampage and slaughter people. Pastor Jones has exercised his freedom of expression. Others had to pay the price. I don't think we are too far apart on this.
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