One of my co-respondents brought to my attention the fact that an Islamic mosque in Dayton, Ohio had been attacked by person(s)unknown with some sort of a chemical irritant sprayed through a window into the nursery section, which was filled with small children. The incident happened this past Friday night.
According to reports, a ten-year-old girl was sprayed in the face through a window by an unknown male using a spray can. Approximately 300 people were worshiping in the mosque when the incident took place. Several other people were affected by the spray, and the mosque had to be emptied.
Many are linking the attack to the concurrent dissemination in Ohio of the film, "Obsession", which deals with Jihad, Shariah law etc.
The Daily Kos, predictably, is reporting that the attack is the work of people who support the candidacy of John McCain. That is a shameless partisan cheap shot.
My reaction is this: While I have written extensively (and will continue to do so) on the threat of radical, violent Islam, what apparently happened in Dayton (which is still under investigation)is unacceptable. Targeting innocent Muslims is wrong. Period. If someone, indeed, sprayed a chemical irritant into the mosque, hopefully, they will be caught and prosecuted along with anyone else involved. Regardless of the tensions that exist in the world, America has a proud record of religious tolerance which should be maintained.
In our opposition to Islamic extremism, we should not resort to acts of violence, such as apparently occurred in Dayton.
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24 comments:
Well said. We must not become like our enemies if we are to defeat them.
Or it never happened. If this did happen, it would be all over the news. A major story with Muslim leaders screaming racism just like good ole Rev. Sharpton.
I doubt that this happened without a report in the media.
Actually, is has been reported in the Dayton newspapers. I read a statement by the police chief or spokesman that. as yet, it doesn't appear to be a hate crime.
At any rate, this bears following.
Funny how the rest of the nation didn't pick it up.
As a follow-up, this incident is being reported in the Dayton Daily News.
Gary, thank you for posting about this, I really appreciate it.
What was particularly disgusting is that they released the chemical (or whatever it was) into the nursery. Whoever did this is complete scum.
Oh and remember what I was saying about the company you keep? Case in point: Findalis. This person would obviously rather stick their head in the sand like an ostrich than admit that maybe there are hateful people out there who would like to do harm to our Muslim citizens. To me that says a lot about her.
And why would anyone be screaming "racism"? Last I checked, "Muslim" isn't a race.
I don't condone this bryan but when you preach violence and hatred, teach it daily to your children and commit acts of violence upon others, you can not expect violence to be brought to your doorstep.
Given the reverse on this. Suppose this happened in a Synagogue? And suppose there were deaths? What do you think the Muslim response would be?
It wouldn't be condemning the jerks who did this. It would be the handing out of treats and dancing in the streets of Muslim neighborhoods.
That is the difference. I didn't see this in the news. It didn't go national. And I DON'T CONDONE IT!
Findalis,
Well said.
Findalis wrote:
when you preach violence and hatred, teach it daily to your children and commit acts of violence upon others, you can not expect violence to be brought to your doorstep.
I'm assuming that you meant "...you can expect violence to be brought..."
Who is teaching hatred to their children? You're doing a lot of ASSuming here. Do some Muslims preach hate? Absolutely. I'm sorry though, but I know too many of them personally (I'm a public school teacher) to believe that they're all being taught to hate. You're painting with a very wide brush, which is bigoted and hateful.
Given the reverse on this. Suppose this happened in a Synagogue? And suppose there were deaths? What do you think the Muslim response would be?
That's irrelevant to the point at hand.
It wouldn't be condemning the jerks who did this. It would be the handing out of treats and dancing in the streets of Muslim neighborhoods.
Again, you're doing a lot of assuming here. Ever hear about the Muslim kid who defended the Jewish boys against a group of hostile Christians? Do you think that he'd celebrate that sort of a thing? I can't imagine any of the Muslims I know celebrating that sort of a thing. I could be wrong, but it seems that you've never actually met a Muslim in your life, and you base all of your opinions off of what you read on right-wing blogs.
That is the difference. I didn't see this in the news. It didn't go national. And I DON'T CONDONE IT!
You're also not condemning it. I find your opinion to be tasteless, bigoted, ridiculous and frightening. You're an extremist, and I don't trust your type any more than I do the sorts that Gary criticizes.
As for you, Gary - "Well said?" My head just exploded. Told you that would happen one day.
I don't condone this bryan but when you preach violence and hatred, teach it daily to your children and commit acts of violence upon others, you can not expect violence to be brought to your doorstep.
You just lost pretty much any shred of credibility you might have had as soon you uttered the word "but..." This statement by you also demonstrates your bigoted stereotypes about Muslims. You ASSUME that these Muslims preach violence and hatred because a small, vocal minority does. You ASSUME that these Muslims teach such values to their children because a small minority does. You ASSUME that these Muslims commit violence upon others because a small minority have hijacked the religion for political means. You are obviously a prejudiced BIGOT.
Given the reverse on this. Suppose this happened in a Synagogue? And suppose there were deaths? What do you think the Muslim response would be?
It wouldn't be condemning the jerks who did this. It would be the handing out of treats and dancing in the streets of Muslim neighborhoods.
The vast majority of Muslims would rightly condemn it. When 9/11 happened, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Muslims took to the streets in Iran to hold a candle light vigil in solidarity with the people of our country and in condemnation of the attacks. Bet you didn't hear about that though, did you? You'd rather cling to the occurrence of a small minority of Palestinians celebrating after 9/11. Hmm, let's see here, hundreds of thousands in the streets condemning the attacks, or a small minority celebrating them, which is more representative of the majority?
Lance,
Your head exploded?
Well, aside from your head exploding, your comments are well taken, though you are going into a lot of details.
You are correct that one should not assume that this particular mosque was preaching hatred to their children. As I said, these folks in Dayton are presumed innocent. Yet, Findalis is correct in pointing out that many mosques worldwide-including the US are indeed preaching hatred-and Muslims in mosques that don't preach such hatred realize this fact.
This is not to suggest that what happened in Dayton was in any way excusable. It is not.
I don't think Findalis hates Muslims, but let's be frank. There is a lot of anger about what is going on today on the part of radical Muslims (if that is the correct word). To be angry about that doesn't make one a racist.
And as for that exploded head-you'd better see a doctor about it.
Bryan,
"Also, shame on you, Gary, for agreeing with such vile, idiotic statements."
Rather than repeat what I wrote back to Lance, I would refer you to the above response, which pretty much spells out how I feel on that point.
As for your references to a small minority celebrating 9-11, point well taken. I would slightly amend that to say that we are still trying to figure out what percentage sympathized with us on 9-11 or celebrated. We just don't know-and that is why there is suspicion. Sorry to say it, but that suspicion is justified until Muslim rise up in massive numbers to confront this evil that, as you say, has hijacked the religion. (and I am not sure hijacked is the proper term).
And I do recall the vigils held in Iran.
Gary, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then guess what? Quack quack quack!
You know, you rightfully ask moderate Muslims why they don't condemn the actions and words of the the extremists in their midst. This is a case where you need to stop looking at the speck in their eyes and notice the plank that you have in your own. (And yes, I know that what Findalis is saying isn't as bad as what some of those extremists you criticize are saying - that doesn't make it right or acceptable though.)
There's a big difference between the opinions that you express and what findalis is saying. (This is no doubt why "liberals" like Bryan and I like to converse with you - because you're not an irrational extremist.) When you defend her, it only makes you look bad, and it does your cause a lot more harm than good.
You should distance yourself from comments like that and some of your other conservative bloggers (like Lionheart). Well, at least if I were you, that's what I'd do. I'll let your own conscience weigh in on what you should do.
Lance,
My conscience is just fine and dandy, thank you.
I still go back to my main point, which I think pertains to Findalis. There is a vast difference between being outraged about Islamic violence/intimidation and recognizing that at least a significant segment of the Muslim world feels at war against us-and hating Muslims per se. Heck, I teach several Muslims students, most of whom are from Saudi Arabia, and I don't hate them. I assume they have nothing to do with Jihad.
I think you and Bryan should accept Findalis' word,
"I don't condone it." (referring to what happened in Dayton) and let it go at that.
As outspoken as we may be against the Jihadist element, we do know the difference between right and wrong, and that taking our feelings out against innocent Muslims-especially children-is flat out wrong.
Sorry to say it, but that suspicion is justified until Muslim rise up in massive numbers to confront this evil that, as you say, has hijacked the religion.
Wouldn't the Iranian vigils be just such an example of that?
Also, do you hold Christians to the same standard? For example, I haven't heard of any massive Christian demonstrations condemning the assassination of abortion doctors or the bombing of clinics by Christian extremists. Should we be suspicious of all Christians, then? Perhaps they all mostly support such actions? (Let me remind you, I myself am a Christian.)
Anyways, I checked out Findalis' blog. Lance is right, she is an extremist. She is sitting here trying to walk some fine line between not condoning the acts, but not outright condemning them, either. Let me remind everyone: INNOCENT CHILDREN AND BABIES WERE ATTACKED HERE. Which is why Findalis' ambiguous opinion of the event is especially disgusting.
As a side note, anyone who also continues to include Obama's middle name (bolded and italicized) every time they mention him is also a complete joke. (This was something I noticed on her blog.)
Gary,
It amazes me that you don't see the difference between what you write and what she writes.
Bryan,
Assassination of abortion doctors (which I condemn) is limited to a few incidents. I have heard Christians speak out against this. As for me, anyone who murders out of what they consider to be Christian ideals is totally misguided and to be condemned, but you are talking about isolated incidents.
In that vein, a few incidents of killing abortion doctors hardly compares to the atrocities which are being carried out in the name of Islam almost daily.
Have you ever read anything by me referring to Obama's middle name?
As for Findalis, I will let her defend herself. Why don't you go to her website and challenge and debate her views?
What gets me is that brian and lance don't realize that both Mr. Fouse and myself have worked in the Intelligence field for years. On a personal level, I have over 20 years in that field, first for the military then for private groups. I'm not a novice when it comes to Islam, and the values it states. In fact, I've become quite an expert on it, having seen first hand the true nature of the "religion of peace". The bombings, the propaganda directed at their own children (try watching the TV shows that Hamas produces for their children. If that isn't child abuse, then what is?), and the violence that the majority of members of Islam have done to each other.
The situation in Iraq is Muslim on Muslim violence. Dishonor killings are only done in Muslim lands. And then there is the idea that Islam should have more rights than other faiths. Footbaths in airports when there isn't even a chapel for any worship. Segregated public swimming times (lets not offend the women in the sofa cover), and my favorite is that 75% of all Mosques preach hatred and bigotry.
I have seen small children blown to piece because Islam wanted it. I have seen women try to burn themselves to death rather than face the stoning or worse for the crime of being raped. I have seen death and destruction at the hands of a suicide bomber who has been promised 72 virgins if he kills the Jew. And it all sickened me.
Say what you will. But that is the true nature of Islam. Read the Koran. I have, 3 times. It is the lunatic ramblings of a mad man.
We who do fight for the Freedoms that you enjoy endure much and see much. We also know the truth when it hits us in the face.
For the record, that nice episode in Dayton is been seen to be a hoax. It never happened.
Ah but for the byrans and the lances of the nation has many a good man and woman been killed.
Call me what you want, it doesn't make it so. It only makes you feel good and think that your views are correct.
I am an expert on the violence that the "Religion of Peace" as you liberal like to call Islam, has perpetrated upon the world.
I have seen the women commit suicide rather than face the punishment for being raped (stoning). It isn't pretty to watch someone purposely douse themselves with gas and set themselves on fire, rather than be buried up to their chest and have the village men stone them.
I have seen men, women and children blown to pieces by some idiot who was promised that he would get 72 virgins if he killed himself and others.
And I have seen and heard the bigotry and hatred that is now being taught in 75% of the mosques in the US.
There are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam. By its very nature it cannot be. By the very laws that Muslims live by it cannot ever become moderate.
Don't take my word on that. Find out for yourself. Read the Koran (yes you can find some very good translations). Read the Hadiths. Then re-read them again.
The Dayton papers have taken down the story on this incident. It turns out it was a hoax. It never happened.
And on 9/11 and for weeks afterward, I was one of many people who stood in front of mosques, not protesting but protecting my Muslim neighbors so that they can worship in peace. Did you even do that?
That's funny, Finadalis, I just went to the Dayton Daily News web site after reading your posts, and the news stories are still up. And guess what: no update about it being a hoax! So you're either a liar or an idiot. I think I'll go with both.
What scares me most is that your kind have worked for our government.
Bryan, Bryan, Bryan,
A little civility, please.
Gary, I think that any sense of civility or decency was already destroyed by the vitriol and ignorance spewed forth by Findalis.
Regarding the Koran, I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a book with a lot of messed up stuff in it. It's not any worse than the Bible though, which people still insist is "the good book" even though it's anything but.
And 75%? Where do you get your numbers, Findalis? The same place O'Reilly gets his facts? (You know - making them up?)
I live 4 blocks from this Mosque. I have said from the beginning that people were overacting, all you had to do was look at how the police reacted, how the members reacted and even how the media reacted. I had neighbors wanting to have a candle light vigil (boy would they look dumb now) and others who reacted negatively because the mosque had not always been the best neighbor (primarily the traffic that packs into our small residential neighborhood during Friday prayer, they speed, run stop signs, park haphazardly since they have no parking). I said wait for the facts, it could just be kids screwing around. Well I'll be danged, biggest mistake I ever made was buying that pencil with an eraser! The FBI has even become involved (because they have to) and it looks like a 10 year old member is the "hate criminal".
I hope you all feel silly and will slow down next time before you read so much into something.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/10/07/ddn100708mosquefolo.html
Interestingly my downtown Christian church once had vandals break in and trash the alter area, we never thought it a hate crime, we just figured it was kids acting stupid. So we reacted like adults, cleaned it up and moved on. The members of this Mosque are doing the same, it's everyone else that needs to stop and think.
Denny,
Thank you for the update. I checked the article in the Dayton daily News, and it appears the can of pepper spray was found by police inside the mosque.
As one who has been very critical of Islamic radicalism (and been called Islamophobe by some), I was concerned about the initial reports of an attack, which I would condemn.
I have lined the update to my blog and will post my own update later today.
Pls keep us informed.
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