Thursday, December 25, 2014

Guess Who Held a Vigil For the Guy Killed by the Cop in Berkeley, Missouri

Hat tip Daily Californian

"Yee gads!"

If you guessed Berkeley, California, you would be correct. Never mind that Antonio Martin is shown on video pointing a gun at the cop before he was shot dead.

And never mind that the gun wasn't just something that looked like a gun. It was a real gun, was loaded and recovered at the scene.

Facts be damned.


Siarlys Jenkins said...

What we have heah,is a faylyu to commoonikate.

There are two ideologically driven positions running their mouths:

1) Cops uber alles, they can do no wrong.

2) All black men killed by police were innocent lambs, no reason to shoot except racism.

Since both sides of this argument lie, conceal, and prevaricate, and both sides have some kernels of truth to cite, this is going to be an intractable mess, unless...

...we can settle into a sober look at each individual case on its own merits, recognizing that each one will be different.

Oh, and when police do shoot innocent civilians, they should be prosecuted. The officers who shot Amadou Diallo, for instance, were essentially guilty of homicide in the honest but unreasonable belief that their lives were in danger. That is a crime for any civilian, and should be for police as well.

elwood p suggins said...

We most certainly have a "faylyu to commoonikate" That failure is, however, primarily, even almost exclusively, in the minority communities, particularly the black ones.

Q. Where are the white disturbances/riots when police officers, whether white, black, or otherwise, shoot and kill young white men, which they do??
A. There are none.

Q. Where are Obama, Holder, Jackson, Sharpton, the Congressional Black Caucus, et al when, for each of at least the last 10 years, approximately as many, and usually more, black people have been killed (primarily by other blacks, including plenty of young ones as both killers and victims ) in the city of Chicago alone (not to mention other "inner-cities") than have people of all races been killed by police officers of all races nationwide??

A. I don't know where they are, but they are certainly not in this discussion. I do know that there is an old saw that addresses having your own house in order before complaining that mine is dirty.

And it is interesting that Siarlys finds the officers involved in the Diallo case guilty of homicide when they were actually acquitted by a jury including four (4) blacks, one of whom was the jury foreman, while simultaneously finding Mumia Abu-Jamal and Joanne Chesimard innocent when they were each convicted of murder by a jury.

While I do believe that Chesimard's jury was all-white, Abu-Jamal's original seated jury was 25 % black (approximately equal to the black population of the city of Philadelphia at that time). One of the black jurors violated the court's order relative to sequestration and was dismissed and replaced by a white alternate, with the approval of, and no objection by, the defense, still leaving two blacks as jurors.

Little predilection going on here, maybe??

elwood p suggins said...

P.S.--With further regard to Abu-Jamal, I would note that I am quite sure it was the same jury, including those same two blacks, which unanimously imposed the death penalty on him. That says a lot. And I would further note that while it took the better part of 30 years, the Federal courts did indeed finally remand the death penalty portion of the case for a re-hearing/new penalty phase trial.

This was not, however, based on any police misconduct, or perjury, or racial overtones, or witness recantation, or lack of evidence, etc., etc., etc., but rather over one (yes, exactly ONE) jury instruction which might (stress MIGHT) have precluded a death sentence in the first place. Probably understandably, the prosecutor declined to pursue the matter and the sentence was, I believe, commuted to life without parole.

In any event, no (repeat NO) court, State or Federal, including SCOTUS (I believe involving a total about 21 different judges/justices), to my knowledge, has ever been anywhere even close to overturning the guilty verdict itself. Believe him innocent if you wish.

Siarlys Jenkins said...

elwood is living out the song "Rambling mind" today.

It is of course racist to say that two blacks on the jury means everything is all right. Do black people all think alike, elwood? Are each of these jurors not unique individuals?

Police do indeed shoot young white men, there are simply more of them. But police do not have a reflex 'white man, more likely than not up to no good.' White criminals are seen as exceptions, blacks acting criminal as the norm.

I know what the jury decided. I have no position, or desire, to revisit the case and send anyone to prison now. I'm merely outlining a legal basis for why I might have convicted. I might not even have opposed probation -- it was an unfortunate error in judgement, and the police were clearly remorseful. But police need to learn to exercise caution before pulling the trigger when they merely suspect that someone might be dangerous.

Based on the accumulated evidence, I see a distinct possibility that Mumia did not shoot Officer Faulkner, that whoever did shoot, Mumia or someone else, Faulkner offered a great deal of provocation, and most important, that the evidence presented tot he jury was in significant part fraudulent.

As for Assata Shakur, its hard to say, but I don't much care at this point. Let her wither away in Cuba. What has she to do with whether an innocent unarmed man in the Bronx being shot to death is wrong?

elwood p suggins said...

Siarlys-remove your blinders and take your head out of the sand or wherever else you have it stuck where the sun don't shine.

It is a LONG stretch indeed from your "distinct possibility" (which is not a legal term as far as I know) to the "reasonable doubt" standard which juries and courts are required to use for conviction. If exoneration was in the cards, his own brother (half-brother??) was probably in the best position of all to so, and at least to date even he has not proclaimed Mumia's innocence that I know of.

I have previously described opinions for you. In mine, Mumia should have had a shocking experience 25 or so years ago and the worms should be well on the way to eating him up by now.

And you are COMPLETELY wrong in your statement relative to police actions as they concern white v. black dirtbags. If you knew half as much about law enforcement as you think you do (or wish you did???), you would be aware that police officers, with very few exceptions indeed, respond to behavior and NOT skin color. Ask Gary.

Gary Fouse said...


You are correct. Cops have to respond to calls or when they see illegal or suspicious behavior. In which big city precincts do you think they get most of their calls and thus contacts with the public? That is in the black and Hispanic neighborhoods. There is a reason why the statistics are what they are.

Gary Fouse said...

Mumia has had his conviction reviewed and examined more than any other convict in this country. They have all concluded that the verdict was correct. Frankly, it's sickening to hear his defenders whine about this guy. I even had one of his top defenders writing into the site protesting his innocence. The black jurors were sensible enough to see through the BS of his defense and conclude that he was guilty. Too bad all the white liberals who shed tears for Mumia don't have that much common sense.