Rosie O'Donnell-Truther Spokesperson
9-11 Truthers in Action
I realize that there have always been and always will be conspiracy theorists among us. The JFK assassination bred a generation of conspiracy theorists, many of whom still think the president was killed by the Mob, Castro, the CIA, Lyndon Johnson or others. Though no one has ever been proven to be involved in the assassination other than Lee Harvey Oswald, many intriguing theories have been based on plausible explanations, if not definite fact. It's safe to say that any monumental (man-made) event will trigger conspiracy theories.
The latest conspiracy theory is that of the so-called 9-11 Truth Movement,who maintain that the Bush Administration had prior knowledge of the attack on the Twin Towers (and thus, did nothing to stop it from happening) or that the Administration actually carried out the attacks in order to provide a pretext for going to war in the Middle East. It is believed by these folks that the towers came down due to a controlled demolition, and that charges must have been previously set. What is really scary is the number of believers who should know better.
I won't waste a lot of time trying to refute the theories of the 9-11 Truthers. Others (like Popular Mechanics) have done a much more competent job of doing that. Suffice to say that we have all witnessed the sight of the planes flying into the Twin Towers. The identities of the hijackers have been established. Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaida have taken credit for the attacks.
Now let's consider some of the folks who believe in this conspiracy theory. In the Middle East, of course, they believe that it was the Jews (who warned their co-religionists working in the World Trade Center to stay home on 9-11).In Hollywood, of course, there is Charley Sheen, who in his mid-life, has apparently decided that he should believe in something-anything!. Hollywood has produced a couple of movies, Loose Change (2005) and In Plane Site (2004), both to push the alternative explanations for 9-11. In addition, the entertainment industry in New York is represented by none other than that great mind of reason, Rosie O'Donnell, who used her soapbox on The View to advance her belief that it was the work of the evil George W Bush and his evil sidekick, Dr.Doom himself, Dick Cheney, as well as everybody's villain, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (who happened to be in the Pentagon when the plane struck.)
Of course, the universities, with their great PHD minds, have their true believers; people like Professors James Fetzer, Professor Emeritus, University of Minnesota at Duluth and Steven Jones, BYU, both of whom were founders of the original organization, Scholars for 9-11 Truth. Jones later broke off from Fetzer and founded the Scholars for 9-11 Truth and Justice. Other organizations to push the conspiracy theory have sprout up like weeds. Hey! Why hate bin Laden when you can blame Bush?
Perhaps most troubling of all, a recent poll indicated that about 35% of Democrats believe that Bush had prior knowledge of the attack. Even among elected representatives, former congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney (D-GA), a discredited flake with anti-semitic views, is signing on to the Truther movement.
As I said, there is little point in trying to refute this nonsense with reason. If people really want to believe that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are so evil as to let this happen or cause it to happen, then no argument will change their minds. I will say one thing, however, that any sane person should understand. If the conspiracy theorists are correct, and our government and leaders were involved in 9-11, then this is the most successful conspiracy in recorded history. It would have involved probably hundreds, if not thousands of participants, witting or unwitting. Yet, not one person who would have had knowledge has stepped forward to spill the beans, either out of conscience, greed or other motivation. In that light, to believe that our government was involved in 9-11 requires a certain dose of lunacy, something that is in no short supply in Hollywood and our universities.
If one wants to believe that our government was negligent or failed to connect the dots, that is entirely reasonable. Blame can be spread around in both the Bush and Clinton administrations. It can certainly be argued that attacks like the Cole, Khobar Towers, the African Embassy attacks and the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993 could have been prevented by better security, coordination or intelligence. All of those attacks occurred during the Clinton Administration. However, I have never heard anyone try to argue that Clinton and his gang actually carried out the attacks.
Meanwhile, as we bicker and point the finger of blame to others, our enemies are plotting their next attack.
26 comments:
Troofers make me sick. They could care less about the truth. When I hear a troofer, I wonder whether they are just ignorant, or whether they are intentionally being misleading. If they are the later, I wonder what is their real agenda.
Another great post! Keep up the excellent blogging.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Do more research. Start with ae911truth.org - no bull, no circumstantial evidence.
The laws of physics are not conspiracy theories.
Kenneth,
I recommend you read the research done by popular mechanics. You might also consider how the 4 hijacked airplanes (2 of which crashed into the towers) figured in all this. Was that an optical illusion that we all witnessed?
I would also remind of you of what I wrote about the hypothetical government conspiracy that would have been necessary, not only to pull this off, but also to keep it a secret conspiracy all this time.
You give too much credit to the competence of the government to carry out such an act.
Interesting how on one hand, the Bush-haters say he is a dumb boob, but then accuse him of being involved in the most intricate conspiracy of all time.
Really, you people must be smoking your socks!
Bush the Feeble is a patsy. The people controlling him however are anything but incompetent.
The Popular Mechanics article has been thoroughly debunked.
Do more research. No optical illusion regarding the planes hitting the Towers. You are woefully out of date regarding this topic. The truth may not be pleasant but it should not be denied on that basis. To do that emboldens the government and is a disservice to us all.
Once again, if you can stand the truth, go to ae911truth.org. Right now your position is one of purposeful ignorance.
The laws of physics are not conspiracy theories.
OK Kenneth, I checked out the 9-11 website. Didn't see any physics, just a lot of speculation, anti-Bush rhetoric and appeals for money. You folks hate Bush so much that you would ascribe the most evil motives to him and his people. But if you want to spend the rest of your life believing this stuff, go ahead.
On that note: There is some guy out there named David Adamson who has written that the JFK assassination, the death of Princess Diana and 9-11 were all the work of two people- George Herbert Walker Bush and Dodi Al-Fayed's father. You might want to check it out.
The identities of the hijackers are in question.
Loose Change was not produced by hollywood. Its title refers to the home-sized budget of the film. (I suggest viewing the newest edition, Loose Change Final Cut, for a surprising string of facts)
You assume that a plot of this magnitude would have to be massive in scope. That is your biased assumption, and does not make it true. These kinds of operations are highly compartmentalized and teams of people would not know the full picture.
Why do you want to "hate Osama" so much, anyway, when he has no real connection to the attacks? The confession tape is a cheap forgery, I urge you to look it up.
Being as you said that "it's not worth refuting the truthers", I doubt that you will learn any of the facts the 9/11 truth movement is trying to make public.
If you actually read Pop. Mech. book, you would know that its full of ad hominem attacks and staw man arguments that do not refute the solid evidence given by the movement.
For example, there was molten steel in the basements of the Towers. "Like lava", "like a foundry" some firefighters said. Meanwhile, it is physically impossible for fire (yes, even jet fuel fire) to burn this hot. Impossible. Case closed! There must be some other way the molten steel formed, and there must be another explanation of the event, therefore the Bush government lied, and continues to maintain that lie. QED.
So how much are the bush folks paying you to say such dribble? The conspiracy theory is one where a dude in a cave orchestrated the largest terrorist event in history. A man who's family has done business with the Bush family for 40 years. Where do we start?
Bush's brother ran the security for the WTC, United Airlines and Dalles airport.
The 3 buildings fell that day at free fall speed, which does not fit into any engineering laws. Picture this; You remember the buildings falling that day, right? Each floor was turning into dust as the building came down. Dust has no real weight, or not enough to impact and push down the floor below it. The buildings came down in 40 foot sections, just long enough to fit on the trucks. This is a trademark of Controlled Demolition Inc.
Cheney, the CIA, NSA and others were running war games that morning consisting of hijacked planes being flown into tall buildings, thereby adding 30 other blips to the radar screens.
Flight 93: The coroner said, "why am I here. There are no bodies, body parts or even blood"
The 2nd plane that the WTC; it's fireball consisted of 5 times the fuel that a civilian plane could carry.
The pentagon: "A 160 ton plane went in and 6 tons come out" Aluminum, titanium, and steel don't evaporate they change form. Melted metal looses only 5% of its weight. Oh this is the most heavily protected building on earth and hitting a 757 would have been a piece of cake.
WTC 7 was literally the strongest built building on earth. It's core beams were not H shaped they were solid. When WTC 7 came down 400 of the largest FTC fraud cases were closed including Enron and the Cailfornia energy fraud.
Before 9-11 there were 6 global hawks, after there were 4 and no reason was given for the missing 2.
The explosion at the pentagon was not a fuel based explosion. It was a cone shaped high explosive blast. Just look at the 1 video (out of 30 cameras) with 5 frames that the bush admin "released"
Explain why hundreds of witnesses and videos show and profess huge explosions in the basement of the WTC.
Explain why they did not find 8 black boxes from the planes? A historical first.
I could go on and on about items that don't compute about 9-11 and for anyone to fall goose step and label people who want to see a real investigation and get the truth about that day as kooks, it's you that is wrong. The odds of what happened that way, that day are 1 in 80 zero's and if you can't find 100 items that need explaining you are the kook.
Oh by the way; If you gave me 5 minutes of your time I could show you how the death of Kennedy was the work of the CIA and Secret Service.
Throughout history the Bush family has had their hands in the deaths of 80 million or more people. Do you think they lost any sleep over 3000 New Yorkers.
Carbon,
First of all, I have no interest in seeing "Loose Change", for the same reason I will not go and see movies like "Rendition", "Lions for Lambs" and "Redacted" They were made only to bash America and/or Bush, with no regard for the truth.
For you, I can only repeat what I said in my original blog and my responses to Kenneth. My mind is not closed, but I live in the real world, not in the fantasy world you folks live in.
Preston,
I am being paid huge amounts of money to print this dribble.
It's just great timing for your article when there is a media blackout on any remarks and questions concerning 9-11 and a huge effort in the past month by the bush administration to label 9-11 truth people as wackos. Your article seems to follow the talking points of this effort to stop any real/new 9-11 investigations.
The bush admin spent 10 times more investigating space shuttle foam (5 million) than they did investigating 3000 deaths on 9-11 ($600,000). America is asking for a real investigation. Thats the only way to shut us up. Not you, nor anyone is going to change the fact that the WTC and pentagon evidence was never examined by experts and was immediately destroyed. Nothing is going to change the fact that thousands of events/items on 9-11 need to be explained and never have.
Explain this:
http://dysfunctional.timothyscarlson.com/Graphics/Politics/Miscellaneous/Twin%20Towers%209.11.2001.jpg
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Pentagon-Crash18may06d.jpg
Look at both photographs. The first is what we all saw, a fuel based explosion. It is random, it is orange, no red. Now the second explosion is the pentagon. It is a cone, it is red, no orange.
http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/images/wtc-9-11.jpg
Now look at an altered photo that is darkened to look red/er
Please explain the pentagon cone!
Another video, no plane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4O4R0LWCQ4
How about this example: On 9-10 Donald Rumsfeld holds a press conference and announces that the pentagon cannot track 2.3 trillion dollars (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml) On 9-11 More than an hour after the WTC was hit a "plane" "appears" over DC, flies over the Ritz Carlton where Bush Sr and Bin Ladens brother are having a Carlyle breakfast/meeting, the "plane" flies next to the White House (which is armed with missiles) flies 3 miles from the US capital building (which is armed with missiles) and is now on a direct path to the front door of the pentagon. Then it does a 190 degree maneuver around the pentagon that pilots state would produce a stall, even at lower speeds and hits a newly rebuilt/re-enforced section of the building (oh! by a dude who could not fly a Cessna). What does it hit? It has targeted the budget office and takes out all the people, computers and paperwork relating to the missing 2.3 trillion dollars. And the pentagon has never mentioned the missing money again. Another bunch of those 9-11 coincidences that don't need to be explained...
Lets keep this going, I have lots more to show you.
Gary:
You are the one who is living in a fantasy world.
I suggest you check out ae911truth again. It is long on technical information and short on anti-Bush rhetoric. Review the material with an open mind; there is a lot to wade through.
Ponder the fact that over 200 professional architects and engineers have subscribed to the position that the government's theory is illogical and incomplete and that a new investigation is required. Also consider that if this many professionals have had the courage to openly espouse this contrary point of view how many others might be out there.
The truth can set you free.
To Preston & Kenneth,
Thanks for livening up my blog, but I've given your "research" all the attention it "deserves". I do plan a follow up posting on the issue. I will refer to your postings to prove my thesis.
1. The 9/11 Truth Movement has nothing to do with the Kennedy or any other conspiracy. It's just a way to divert the focus off topic, and link 9/11 truthers to any other conspiracy theory, like it's just our nature and not about research and evidence.
2. "I don't spend a lot of time trying to debunk the theories." (translation: I have read nothing that does not support my preconceived opinion, like the Popular Mechanics article (which has been debunked many times) so that makes me an expert qualified to judge others who think differently than I.) "What's scary is the number of believers who should know better." No Gary, what's really scary is allowing somebody else to do your homework for you, and believe everything they say without investigating anything for yourself. Just the fact that you say you "refuse to watch Loose Change" speaks to your credibility. When you only seek information that suits your opinion, you're more interested in being right than an honest search for the truth.
3. The identity of the hijackers were established almost immediately. Amazingly, one of the hijackers' passports was found on a NYC sidewalk in almost perfect condition, so that means he must have been a hijacker on the plane that hit the towers. That's one amazing passport though. It somehow flew out of his pocket, while managing to escape a fireball and land in perfect condition on the sidewalk. Also, the BBC has reported some of the alleged hijackers are alive.
Read here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
4. Bin Laden took credit for the attacks? When was that? I hope you're not referring to the video released months after 9/11 of this short fat guy who the government said was Bin Laden. Bin Laden is tall and thin, and left-handed. The short and fat guy in the fake video was writing notes with his right hand.
Read here: http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id301.html
If that's not enough, go to the FBI website and look at the Top Ten Most Wanted. Look at Bin Laden, and see if you can find any mention of 9/11. According to the FBI spokesman Rex Tomb, the FBI has no hard evidence linking Bin Laden to 9/11...not even enough for a simple indictment. I bet you didn't read about that in Popular Mechanics.
http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
5. Loose Change and In Plane Site were not put out by Hollywood, but by average people who are bothered by the lack of focus on the questions surrounding 9/11.
6. A neat little trick is to avoid the facts and issues of a discussion, and attack those who oppose your beliefs, like the way you call out Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity would be very proud.
7. I don't know where you got your polling data, but the Script Howard News Service conducted a poll this week which shows that nearly two-thirds of Americans, not Democrats, believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, unlike the "42% democrats," as you state.
http://www.athensmessenger.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=273&ArticleID=6729&TM=32170.17
8. This is not a personal attack against Bush, but a careful, objective examination of the evidence and unanswered questions. If Clinton was in power under the same exact circumstances and did the same things Bush did, the 9/11 Truth Movement would have the same exact views about the Clinton administration. This is not about politics, it's about the truth, no matter who is in office.
10. Yes Gary, the Bush administration is incompetant, but have you ever heard of black ops?
11. You claim that the government could never keep things quiet? Do you think that we kept things pretty quiet during the Manhattan Project? Besides, people in government have spoken out...former members the present administration, Bush Sr.'r administration, the Reagan administration, and those who want to talk, the government shuts up with a gag order, as is the case with Sibel Edmunds.
If this is about politics, why is George W. Bush's former assistant to the Treasury Morgan Reynolds speaking out about a 9/11 coverup, as are many members of the Bush Sr., and Reagan administrations?
Gary admits not wanting to consider facts. How about I pose some questions to get Gary talking.
What is terrorism, and how do we decide who are the terrorists?
How have freedoms been affected by the Patriot Act?
Who is responsible for the collateral damaged caused by the war on terror?
Thanks for posting 3 good questions, Carbon. I will answer.
(That I don't want to consider facts is your statement not mine. I will never admit to that.)
First question: What is terrorism, and how do we decide who are terrorists?
Terrorism is the targeting and killing of innocent civilians to affect politics or policy. 9-11 was terrorism. 3000 innocent people were slaughtered because Islamic fanatics (or whatever you want to call them)wanted to kill Americans because they don't like our policies or way of life or whatever. I hope you will not try to justify what they did or draw some kind of moral equivalency. Similarly, suicide bombers in Israel are terrorists. They deliberately target innocents. Who are today's terrorists? They are Muslim fanatics killing in the name of their religion.
How have freedoms been affected by the Patriot Act? Yours and mine have not been affected. As I see it, only the "freedoms" of terrorists who may be in this country have been affected. Remember, we have not rounded up innocent Muslims in the US and put them in relocation camps (such as was done to Japanese-Americans on the West Coast during WW2-a mistake and injustice in my view.)
Are you so concerned if NSA taps conversations between suspected terrorists overseas when they call people in the US? To me, we are negligent if we don't. Who in the govt. has infringed on your rights as you criticize our government? In fact, who has infringed on my rights when I criticize the Bush Admin. for its lax policy towards illegal immigration? No one.Also keep in mind. Whatever actions have been taken against terrorism have one motive-to protect innocent life not to gain more power and establish a dictatorship, etc., as you apparently believe.
Who is responsible for collateral damage caused by the war on terror?- The terrorists. Collateral damage to innocent bystanders is a tragic aspect of war. Read about WW2. It was Hitler who was responsible for the millions of Germans who died in that war, not the Allies. It was the rulers of Imperial japan who were responsible for the deaths of millions of Japanese when they plunged their country into war.
Yet, we (unlike the terrorists) do not intentionally target innocent people. Any deviations from that by our soldiers results in disciplinary action, as in Abu Ghraib, or other isolated incidents which are clearly outside policy. Our military has gone to great lengths to try to avoid innocent loss of life. Terrorists who set up shop in a neighborhood or nation, such as Afghanistan or Lebanon are using the innocent population as a shield. They bear ultimate responsibilty for the damage done. As it is, our troops put themselves in even greater danger trying not to kill innocents.
I hope you will also keep an open mind when it comes to your country. America is much better than you apparently think it is.
Wow. Troofer nutcases really come out of the woodwork when you challenge them. They are either morons or liars. Maybe both.
The best way to get crazies to visit and post on your blog is to write about troofers and Ron Paul. There seems to be lots of overlap.
Gary
I am outraged that you believe the army is not responsible for the collateral damage it causes. For the war on terror, the US has killed +600,000 Iraqis, all for the sake of "protecting america" when it was never attacked, or even under credible threat. I may remind you that if Iraq had weapons to use it would have used them for its self defense.
So no matter that 600,000 Iraqi lives have been taken in the war, since Iraq may have become a threat to the US at some time in the future.
The US used violence to affect Iraqi policy, and I would argue that they killed Iraqis intentionally in the following manner:
When an army goes to war, they know how many civilians will be killed on a statistical basis. It can be calculated. To allow the invasion to proceed, knowing that +600,000 will be killed, is a crime against humanity. To accept this as a necessity of war necessitates the belief that Americans are worth more than Iraqis.
I disagree. Every human being deserves the same rights, freedoms, and security, no matter the criminality of their political leadership.
The basic question is, why must the basic security of the Iraqis (to stay alive) be so compromised for the absolute security (the chance of a future threat) of the United States?
Carbon,
You can be outraged all you like, but your figure of 600,000 Iraqis killed by American troops is ridiculous and based on statements by left-wing anti-war types. First, I doubt the 600,000 figure of Iraqis killed by anybody since the invasion. Yes, we killed Iraqi troops in the invasion and have been killing the enemy fighters as well. Most of the Iraqis who have died have been killed at the hands of terrorists and foreign fighters, as well as the high number of Sunnis killing Shia in their sectarian war. To say that American troops have killed 600,000(innocent) Iraqis is ludicrous. Stop drinking the cool-aid.
Ask yourself these questions: Who do you want to win? Don't you want us to leave behind a stable Iraq that will not be a terrorist base, a threat to its neighbors and satellite for Iran? Your answers will tell a lot about your true sympathies.
What makes you doubt the figures?
"To say that American troops have killed 600,000(innocent) Iraqis is ludicrous. "
Who do I want to win? War isn't something that can be won. Both sides are losers, and I want it to end as soon as possible, because it is hurting people on both sides. Violence compounds problems by the destruction it causes.
The "terrorist threat" you speak of is contrived. Made up by the state. The threat is a lie. I explained this earlier, but you will not listen. I will not challenge your bubble of neo-conservative fabrication anymore. Evidence will not persuade you. To me you are a stone; an unchangeable ideological solider. The fascist Bush Youth of 2007.
Carbon,
I wish I could belong to the Fascist Bush Youth 2007, but I am too old (62).
Anyway, I wish you success in your future endeavors.
Gary writes, "OK Kenneth, I checked out the 9-11 website. Didn't see any physics, just a lot of speculation, anti-Bush rhetoric and appeals for money."
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth has very little anti-Bush rhetoric. It has many technical papers that show the government story on how the towers collapsed to be without foundation.
Let's assume that someone believes the official story then what about this quote from the 9/11 Commission:
"To date, the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately the question is of little practical significance."
So the 9/11 Commission is admitting they don't know who funded the terrorists and on top of that, it isn't important anyway. 9/11 remains that greatest unsolved murder mystery in world history.
Well stated, Tanabear!! You might have added that the second greatest unsolved murder mystery is the OJ Simpson case. Hopefully, OJ will find the real killer soon, then he can concentrate on the "9-11" case.
Geesh!
Gary writes, "You might have added that the second greatest unsolved murder mystery is the OJ Simpson case."
No, the second greatest might be the antrax attacks that followed 9/11. But you haven't answered the question regarding who was responsible for funding the terrorists and why don't we have clear answers on this issue yet?
Tanabear,
You might read the 9-11 Commission report-appendix A, which addresses that issue. The FBI believes they dentified the funding, which according to them, was mostly provided by Al-Queda. This consisted of about 400-500,000 dollars for training, travel and living expenses in the US. Accordig to the report, money was moved by wire and bank transfer, physically carried into the US or through credit and debit transactions within the normal international system. Approximately, $ 300,000 was deposited into various banks for use by the terrorists in the US up to 9-11. Some of the unused funds were returned by the hijackers, and according to the FBI, about 10,000 was seized.
That is all according to the 9-11 Commission, which I, of course, cannot verify, and you, of course, are free to accept or reject. But it sure seems logical to me.
gary writes, "The FBI believes they dentified the funding, which according to them, was mostly provided by Al-Queda. This consisted of about 400-500,000 dollars for training, travel and living expenses in the US."
Yes, the 9/11 Commission believes that roughly $400,000 to $500,000 were sent to the alleged hijackers. Who were the specific individuals? Al-Qaeda is an amorphous organization with no real meaning. It was reported in the months after the attacks that,
“The wire transfers from Pakistan were sent to Atta through two banks in Florida.”
“Suspected hijacker Mohamed Atta received wire transfers via Pakistan and then distributed the cash via money orders bought here in Florida. A senior law enforcement source tells CNN, the man sending the money to Atta is believed to be Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh.”
Omar Saeed Sheik was an ISI(Pakistani secret intelligence) agent. The man who ordered the wire transfer was Mahmood Ahmed, the head of Pakistan's ISI at the time. Soon after this wire transfer became public, Ahmed is removed from his position by Musharraf. This shows a direct link back to Pakistan's ISI, not Al-Qaeda. So where was Mahmood Ahmed during that 9/11 attacks?
He travels to Washington on September 4, 2001 to meet with top American intelligence officials, including Tenet, Bob Graham, Porter Goss, Marc Grossman etc. So a man who ordered a wire transfer of money to Atta is meeting with top American officials before, during and after the 9/11 attacks. Why? What were they discussing? This is clear evidence that the 9/11 attacks had a state sponsor, Pakistan.
Also the other two individuals under suspicion were Omar al-Bayoumi and Osama Basnan. However, there funding goes back to Saudi Arabia. Why does the 9/11 Commission ignore this and state, "the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks."?????
Tanabear,
Admittedly, I have not spent as much time as you trying to research all these people, but after your latest blurb, I did some basic google searches on them (which does not replace true research and investigation). Anyway, I think you may be overstating Sheik's staus as an ISI agent. Was he an informant? Did he merely have connections in ISI? None of that would be surprising. As a retired DEA agent, I worked with a lot of informants, almost none of whom would I have to my house for dinner. Often, they would get arrested doing things on the side, which I never allowed or turned a blind eye to. They were not DEA Agents, though uninformed members of the public might think they were. (Note difference between Agent and informant,contact or source of information).
As for Ahmed, it seems he was having breakfast in Washington with Goff, et al, discussing Bin Laden when 9-11 actually happened. When his relationship to Sheik was later revealed, he was sacked by Musharrif, right?
My point is this: No one disputes the fact that the Saudi and Pakistani governments, particularly ISI, have terrorist sympathizers among them including those who fund or facilitate terrorist activities. I think when you attempt to link them with US Government agencies or leaders, who you seem to think are part of the 9-11 conspiracy, you are making a huge stretch. Are you implying that people like Goff were involved in 9-11? C'mon!
While I was in DEA, I was stationed overseas for 8 years. I can tell you that American agencies often have to work with foreign officials who are corrupt. Our task is to try to overcome that hurdle, find those who can be trusted and accomplish the mission. Isn't that what we are trying to do in Saudi and Pakistan?
Are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia cesspools of corruption and complicity? Sure. But if there elements in those countries who see that our enemies are their enemies, should we not try to help those good elements prevail? I think so.
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