A Conversation With Some Young Muslims

The predicament with a Christian pastor in Iran who is facing execution reminds me of a very recent conversation I had with a group of young Muslims. Who they are is unimportant, but a couple of them approached me recently in a missionary spirit to educate me (a simple passer-by) about Islam. Let's say it was an act of Dawa to use their own words. The discussion was polite and respectful on both sides.

Two of them asked me about my spiritual relationship with God, thoughts about the afterlife,  then asked me what was my first thought when I heard the word.......

Islam.

"A religion and political ideology", I answered.

Early on in the conversation, I told them about myself in the spirit of full disclosure. One of the young men took over the conversation and we began to discuss issues like terrorism, Islamic laws, shariah, and other aspects of Islam. The young man told me he was involved in religious issues and didn't want to discuss political issues. I then raised several aspects of Islam and sharia that I had issues with.

In the area of stoning, the young man began to explain that the crime of a woman committing adultery required 4 witnesses to the act. I replied that we should assume there were 4 or more witnesses, and the woman confessed. My interlocutor raised the issue of the woman repenting. I said we should assume she refused to repent. The other young man informed me that if a Muslim woman was truly faithful, she would agree with the punishment. My basic question was if they agreed with stoning a woman to death for adultery. That is as close to an answer I got.

In the area of apostasy, I was told that it was important to consider whether the apostate was actually fighting against Islam (my words). I raised the examples of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan and Nonie Darwish , who were apostates speaking out publicly against Islam. I never got a real answer as to whether it was justified to kill apostates though one man said that it was an issue between the individual and God.

I also brought up other issues like Iran hanging homosexuals and persecuting Baha'i, as well as other countries like Egypt and Pakistan persecuting Christians. I was told that no country, including Iran, was practicing true Islamic shariah law. One man said that Iran might think they were using shariah law, but they were not.

Obviously, I was not taking notes, but here are some other thoughts:

Christians and Jews are respected by Islam as being "people of the book".

When I mentioned the countless acts of terrorism and violence carried out around the world, I was told repeatedly that this was not Islam.

I asked the one man who wanted to stick to religious points about how the Koran was written; that I had read it after 9-11 and noted that the Suras (chapters) were arranged in order of length-longest to shortest) and not in time order. I knew that the prophet Mohammad had written (or dictated) the Koran over the course of years from his time in Mecca when he tried to preach his revelations to the time in Medina when he became a warrior. I sensed a feeling of discomfort when I called Mohammed a warrior, but I continued that I understood there was a doctrine of "abrogation". That means that if there is a conflict between passages (peaceful vs violent), that written later in time abrogated the former. It was part of my question as to how we could learn the chronology of the Suras. His answer was while the Koran didn't give it, the chronology could be determined by researching through Google.  My point was that it was my understanding that it was important to know the chronology of statements since Mohammed's later years were more militant. The young man informed me that he was not familiar with any doctrine of abrogation and would have to research it himself and get back to me.

A couple of times, my references to Islamic terror were answered by references to others dropping bombs on civilians. There was also a reference to Timothy McVeigh. I responded that I was an ex-DEA agent who had lost 5 colleagues in the Oklahoma City bombing, that I applauded McVeigh's execution, but that McVeigh was acting not out of Christian motives, rather his own twisted ideas.

A couple of other young Muslims joined the conversation. I mentioned that I had been present at the "Irvine 11" event in 2010, when Muslim students disrupted the speech of the Israeli ambassador at UC-Irvine. (They were recently convicted.). As I described my own observations, I was told by one young man that the ambassador had left the speech early that night so he could attend an LA Lakers basketball game. (there was indeed a game in LA that night. If that's true, I guess he may have made the 4th quarter.)

I also made reference to a video that showed that an MSU leader had told the crowd after leaving the event that, "We pretty much shut it down and now let's go to the Cross Cultural Center for a debriefing." I was then told by one of the young men that"shut it down" among the youth of today has several meanings other than (disrupting an event and bringing it to an end). I responded with a prolonged smile and "OK".

I also told them that the MSU at UCI was discrediting itself by bringing in radical, hateful speakers like Amir Abdel Malik Ali, Abdul Alim Musa, Mohammed al Asi, George Galloway and Cynthia McKinney, and that was the reason the MSU at UCI was considered radical. I told them that at UCI over the past 5 or so years, I had heard statements from speakers that were not only anti-Israel, but anti-American and anti-Semitic as well. I quoted Al Asi's 2001 words at UCI, "You can take a Jew out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the Jew."One young man told me that he did not agree with al Asi.

After a half hour or so, we ended the conversation on a pleasant note. Was I satisfied with the answers I received to my direct questions? No, but I hope the young men took my sincere words to heart.