With all due respect to conscientious objectors -of any religion- this story smells to high heaven. Naser Abdo is a 20-year-old Muslim who joined the US Army last year, was trained as an infantryman, and now is refusing to deploy to Afghanistan based on conscientious objector status.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/02/muslim-soldier-refuses-deploy-afghanistan/
Excuse me, but it strains credulity to think that this young man joined the Army last year as an infantryman and didn't understand that he was likely to be sent either to Iraq or Afghanistan.
C'mon.
I also don't buy this stuff about refusing because of the peaceful teachings of his religion. Without getting too deep into that, Muslims are fighting all over the world-often between their own sects. The problem is obviously that Abdo doesn't want to join an army of non-Muslims fighting against Muslims in Afghanistan, which is exactly what he would be doing. No question that is a dilemma for any Muslim.
Yet, this strikes me as some sort of planned set-up and leads me to wonder who is behind this young man. There is no way I am going to believe that this guy joined the army not imagining that this situation was going to come to pass.
I smell a rat.
"I also don't buy this stuff about refusing because of the peaceful teachings of his religion. "
ReplyDeleteRight, because there couldn't possibly be multiple interpretations of a single religion's teachings! No way! Islam is monolithic and it's whatever the Muslim-bashers say it is! Makes perfect sense, of course.
"The problem is obviously that Abdo doesn't want to join an army of non-Muslims fighting against Muslims in Afghanistan, which is exactly what he would be doing."
ReplyDeleteTell that to the countless Muslim-Americans currently fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we're not fighting Muslims, we're fighting the Taliban. You paint with too broad a brush and your "us vs. them" mentality is sickening and exactly what you share in common with people like Osama bin Laden.
Oh stop it, Anonymous. I salute any Muslim-Americans who are fighting on our side over there. And you compare me with Osama Bib Laden???!!
ReplyDeleteCan't remember the last time I sent anyone to fly planes into buildings.
Dope!
I wonder if he would still be an Conscientious Objector if he was to be deployed to fight Israel instead of Afghanistan?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous is right in that there are multiple interpretations of the religion but the sad fact is that the main stream of the Muslim religion flow from clerics in Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. The more religious they are, the more extreme they are. So the ones who are not militant are, in effect, bad Muslims.
ReplyDeleteIt is foundational to Islam, for example, that Sharia Law, be promulgated around the whole world. If you don't do what you can as a Muslim to follow and promote the acceptance everywhere, you are not an observant Muslim... even if you have to impose it on people who don't want it. (See the videos from France Gary posted.)
There are certainly theological differences between Shia and Sunni and other sects but the Koran is central to all of them.
If you aren't familiar with the religion and want to verify what I'm writing, pick up a copy of Islam for Dummies ... for a start.
.
Findalis,
ReplyDeleteIn that case, he'd probably win the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Findalis is so loony as usual that she's not even worth responding to other than pointing out how laughably loony she is. As for Miggie...
ReplyDelete"Anonymous is right in that there are multiple interpretations of the religion but the sad fact is that the main stream of the Muslim religion flow from clerics in Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. The more religious they are, the more extreme they are. So the ones who are not militant are, in effect, bad Muslims."
Those clerics aren't the mainstream at all. They might get the most attention, but that's because what they say is sensational. And I agree to an extent that more religious one is, the more extreme they are. But that is true of ANY religion. See Orthodox Jews as an example in Judaism or abortion clinic bombers as an example in Christianity. The ones that aren't militant aren't bad muslims though, they're simply the vast majority, the true MAINSTREAM.
"It is foundational to Islam, for example, that Sharia Law, be promulgated around the whole world. If you don't do what you can as a Muslim to follow and promote the acceptance everywhere, you are not an observant Muslim... even if you have to impose it on people who don't want it."
This is where you start to go off the deep end into ignorance. You claim to know so much about Islam and talk down to me as if I know nothing when it is YOU who are ignorant. If you knew even the most basic facts about Islam you would know of the five pillars, you know, the ACTUAL things that are foundational:
1) profession of faith
2) prayers
3) fasting during Ramadan
4) alms giving
5) the Hajj or pilgrimage to Mecca
So where does proselytizing and spreading sharia fit into that? Because those are the actual five pillars (foundationals) of Islam, that you would already know about if you weren't a complete ignoramus that doesn't even know the most basic things about Islam.
You forgot a few Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteKilling Jews and Christians or forcing them to pay the jizya.
Waging Jihad on the unbelievers.
Forcing women into a second class role with no rights. Killing your mothers, daughters, sisters, etc... to preserve your honor(None of you can claim honor, you have no concept of the meaning of that word.).
It is not only acceptable to lie, but required by your religion. Just a few of these:
Koran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Koran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."
Koran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.
Koran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Koran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"
Koran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"
Koran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
None Muslims have something called The 10 Commandments. Funny how Islam doesn't have these.
Finally, Muslims wish to live in the 7th Century and force everyone else to do the same.
You forgot a few Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteKilling Jews and Christians or forcing them to pay the jizya.
Waging Jihad on the unbelievers.
Forcing women into a second class role with no rights. Killing your mothers, daughters, sisters, etc... to preserve your honor(None of you can claim honor, you have no concept of the meaning of that word.).
It is not only acceptable to lie, but required by your religion. Just a few of these:
Koran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Koran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Koran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"
Koran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"
Koran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
No Muslims have something called The 10 Commandments. Funny how Islam doesn't have these.
Finally, Muslims wish to live in the 7th Century and force everyone else to do the same.
the sad fact is that the main stream of the Muslim religion flow from clerics in Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia
ReplyDeleteAren't the majority of the world's Muslims in Indonesia? I could be wrong, but I don't think that your assertion is correct either. Those are certainly the ones that get the most media attention, and if that's what you mean by mainstream, then you're right.
It is foundational to Islam, for example, that Sharia Law...
But what Sharia Law is depends on which Muslim you're talking to. From what I understand, there's hardly a consensus.
There are certainly theological differences between Shia and Sunni and other sects but the Koran is central to all of them.
The thing is, Muslims don't necessarily view the Koran the same way that Christians view The Bible. For many of them, it's more about the sound of the poetry in the original Arabic than the literal meaning of the words. And I know that as far as Sufis go, they don't seem to take much of the Koran literally at all.
Anonynous,
ReplyDeleteI assume your questions were directed to Findalis, but I would like to address the 5 pillars.
I have no problem with the pillars. Asa religion there are good points to islam.
What I have a problem with is Islam as a political ideology that seeks to impose itself on others.
In America, we cannot tolerate honor killings, death for apostates, death fatwahs to those who criticize Islam, stonings for women who commit adultery, etc.
Also, the ideas on western nations becoming Islamized and non-Muslims being faced with the choice of conversion, dhimmi status, or death is unacceptable.
Finally, it seems to me that while we welcome immigrants and allow freedom of religion, Islam seems to go a little too far in demanding that we make changes to accommodate Muslims.
How about Muslims who choose to immigrate adapt to our ways? Or is that too much to ask?
Religion as a political ideology is always wrong, and forbidden by our constitution.
ReplyDeleteLeave it at that, and we wouldn't have any argument.
Is it true that the best-funded, best armed, and most loudly proclaimed effort to advance a political ideology in the name of religion is basing itself on an interpretation of Islam at this time?
Yes it is.
Does that mean this political ideology is the essence of Islam?
No.
@ Siarlys
ReplyDeleteReligion is not forbidden by the US Constitution
1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
In the US you are free to worship how you want, the government cannot tell you how to worship, when to worship or to whom to worship. Nor can it force you to pay for the local house of worship.
It says nothing about not allowing you or anyone else to worship.