The below link is from Lee Kaplan and features an article written by Walid Shoebat, who writes and gives lectures describing himself as a reformed former Palestinian terrorist and convert to Christianity. Its main focus is a recent visit to Israel and the West Bank by representatives of the Olive Tree Initiative (OTI) and their meeting with an Arab member of the Israeli Knesset, Ibrahim Sarsur. The meeting was in the spring of 2010. Shoebat describes Sarsur as a man with two different messages, one for the English-speaking world and quite another for Arabic-speakers. The post features a description of Sarsur meeting with the OTI reps and a video of him speaking in Arabic to his Arab followers.
It should be noted that Shoebat uses a link from the blog Olivetreejourney's blog, written by Sarah Ansari, one of the OTI participants. I would encourage the reader to read all of the blog, which also features a description of a similar visit by this group in the spring of 2011. Ansari is a Pakistani immigrant to the US. Her commentary is partial to the Palestinian side. Athar Ansari, her husband, is a cardiologist. They live in California.
http://homelandsecurityus.com/archives/5007
Most the other participants in these two OTI trips appear to be members of the UC-Irvine Center for Citizen Peace Building, headed by Dr Paula Garb in the Social Sciences Department. It is this entity that oversees the OTI at UCI.
http://www.socsci.uci.edu/~cpb/about.html
It appears that the OTI group referenced was not a group of 30 students, rather faculty and other older adults. The student OTI trips take place in September. Both of these trips occurred in the spring of 2010 and 2011. Below are a few pictures posted on the Olivetreejourney's blog. Some feature George Rishmawi, Palestinian activist and regular contact for the OTI on the West Bank. The below link from Olivetreejourney's blog shows the 2010 itinerary.
http://olivetreejourney.wordpress.com/2010/03/04/join-us-on-the-olive-tree-journey/
March 11th (Thursday)
"8:00 am – Depart to Bethlehem
9:00 am – Rapprochement Center in Beit Sahur (short presentation)"
The Rapprochement Center is run by George Rishmawi. (Palestinian Center for Rapprochement Between Peoples)
Sarah and Athar Ansari. Sarah is editor of Olive Tree Journey's blog.
Below: George Rishmawi (l) with OTI group 2010
2010 meeting with Sarsur (far left)
Group picture with Sarsur
Sarsur has also met with at least one of the Olive Tree Initiative student groups at the Knesset. From the notes of one of the students it is not clear whether it was September 5, 2009 or 2010, but the student described Sarsur as having an in-depth (albeit critical) understanding of Israeli democracy and wanting to find a solution through peace. In short, the student pictured Sarsur as a man looking for a peaceful solution.
So to that student and the Center for Citizen Peace Building, I say with all due respect watch the above-mentioned video from Shoebat's article.
Now I see how OTI supporters can claim that they met with the Israeli government officials and that they love OTI. They are vague and unresponsive when they are asked precisely who in the Israeli government they met with and what they told them of the trips.
ReplyDeleteIt seems from this post that they met with the Arab MKs, if not solely then primarily. There are Israelis on one side of the political spectrum that believe that sending our youth to listen to propagandists who would wage economic and real war on Israel is a keen idea too.
On the whole, the OTI financiers have been secretive and disingenuous about the amount that goes to OTI and whether or not they are supporting another trip this September. They don't want to be identified by name. OTI is something they are not that proud of and would rather keep it generally unknown in the community. It is an embarrassment to them and something they should be ashamed of as it is criticized all the time all over the world. How does one get the hubris to believe that they know better than the vast majority of their community and over 3,000 years of inherited wisdom?
However, this program is so ill conceived and so poorly executed that criticism of it will never stop.
On the other hand, if the true mission of OTI is to get students to believe as the financiers do, then they are a big success. When I say "believe as they do" I mean they believe they have better solutions than the Israelis themselves. As OTI honors graduate Matan writes, accept solutions other nations try to figure out ".... a formula that Israel (grudgingly, or not) will accept."
Let's see if the Rose Foundation will stop OTI financing "grudgingly or not."
@Miggie:
ReplyDeleteMarty, you can see exactly who we met with on all the itineraries and you have my email address if you have any questions.
".... a formula that Israel (grudgingly, or not) will accept."
And now you are taking words out of context and re-arranging them to form a baseless argument about my "pro-Israelness" based non-chalant discussion on Gary's comment wall.
I know Gary has some rules about people lying or using students names to attack, I guess you don't.
Walid Shoebat has been proven to be a fraud and a liar, several times over.
ReplyDeleteLink 1
Link 2
As I wrote you "You weren't taken out of context. The crucial thing you wrote was about israel having to accept something the US, Quartet, and the Arab League would dream up "gruntingly or not". That is not something an Israel advocate would write. You had plenty of opportunity to back away from that statement but didn't. " It was completely within the context of Gary's thread of July 13 titled Obama's Latest Slap at Israel.
ReplyDeleteAnd by the way, it WAS about "... the big summit on Israel at the White House between the US, UN, Russia, China, the EU, and the Arab League" without Israel.
I don't like being called a liar when I quote someone's writing directly. That was precisely what you wrote and in context. Go back and read the thread.
If you meant something else or want to back away, that's fine but don't start name calling when you see your own words backfire.
They put in question whether or not you think Israel should have a say in its own future or whether others should just impose it on them.
.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteWhatever may be the truth about Shoebat, the facts about Sarsur and the pictures of OTI officials with the Rishmawi's remain reliable.
.
I am aware of CNN's allegations. I don't know what is true about Shoeblat, but I don't challenge the facts in his article. That's why I posted it.
ReplyDeleteFar more troubling to me are the postings by Olivetreejourney's blog.
Matan,
ReplyDeleteI see you are a student at UC Irvine now.
I don't have your email and had a couple questions on how stuff works at UC Irvine.
Can you briefly explain how inviting someone to speak on the campus works. Do you need obtain permits from the school? Is it costly (aside from the speaker's fees)?
Does Anteaters For Israel (or other group) invite speakers to the campus that are pro-Israel? Unlike the MSU speakers, I rarely hear about AFI invited speakers. I take that back if Michael Oren was one.
Or does AFI (or other groups that support Israel) not want to get into anything divisive and would rather just focus on ifest to show there is more to Israel than its history and attempts at peace?
I'd be intersted in seeing a Benny Morris, Shlomo Ben Ami, Yossi Alpher or even Dershowitz type who would take the more liberal position in support of Israel to speak on the campus, but I suppose it would be too expensive for a student group to get someone that high level to speak and it might create division between Israeli supporters and that might not be what AFI is about?
@Miggie
ReplyDeleteThey put in question whether or not you think Israel should have a say in its own future or whether others should just impose it on them.
Have I not clearly remarked my own opinion is that this is to be settled bi-laterally by Israel and the Palestinians ONLY, without US or other bodies forcing or pushing some option? In case I have not made it clear before, Israel is and should be in charge of it's own destiny . Please quote that on your blogs and emails that time.
My other remarks were just that the US was trying to find a formula Israel would accept. That doesn't mean that I think the US should do that, I was giving information to an information-less post about the Quartet (something Gary thinks includes the Arab League, it does not, and the Arab League was NOT present).
@Gary
ReplyDeleteTwo Things.
1. Shoebat is a fraud. Call up your local Israel Project or StandWithUs branch, they have all agreed not to use him anymore as his legitimacy is severely questioned.
2. You are quoting ONE PAKISTANI WOMANS blog from a trip of a dozen+ people.
That as if, Marty went on the OTI Community Trip, started a blog called OlivesInMyPants.com, and quoted that "The Palestinians should all be killed or moved to Jordan is the conclusion of my trip". (This is not a direct or factual quote, only hypothetical).
That doesn't make OTI's position killing or moving Palestinians. That also doesn't mean that the OTI trip influenced Marty to want to kill or move Palestinians. Bigots and ignoramuses can go on the trip, not learn anything, and come out bigots and ignoramuses.
The big difference here is the student trip is selected and the community trip is open. See the difference? And before you quote Oren Klein, please read his ENTIRE journal posting, including a majority of criticism to the Palestinians and how much he loves Israel.
Thanks.
@Anon
ReplyDeleteCan you briefly explain how inviting someone to speak on the campus works. Do you need obtain permits from the school? Is it costly (aside from the speaker's fees)?
You need to tell the school you are having an event. I am not sure you need to tell them who or about what (I am not in charge of event planning, and never will be).
It is not costly, it can be free even. The most would be paying for a room setup (<$100) or if security is required (like Oren, which cost much more).
Does Anteaters For Israel (or other group) invite speakers to the campus that are pro-Israel? Unlike the MSU speakers, I rarely hear about AFI invited speakers. I take that back if Michael Oren was one.
Michael Oren was a Rose Project, Jewish Federation, Hillel, and AFI Co-Event, we all paid and invited the speaker. This is overlooked, of course.
AFI had a number of speakers this year, including Neil Lazarus of AwesomeSeminars.com, Ranaan Gissan, the former Israeli Spokesperson for the Prime Minister, the Chief Rabbi of Uganda, and other pro-Israel groups who are more political chose to bring Professor Jonathan Adelman of the AJC, and a Bedouin Muslim Israeli Consulate General Ismael Khaldi.
Or does AFI (or other groups that support Israel) not want to get into anything divisive and would rather just focus on ifest to show there is more to Israel than its history and attempts at peace?
That is the general student consensus, but they are still interested in having speakers for strategic reasons. "Talking to the crowd" (e.g. pro-Israel speakers talking to pro-Israel students) or "talking to the wall" (e.g. pro-Israel speakers talking to anti-Israel students) is useless.
I'd be intersted in seeing a Benny Morris, Shlomo Ben Ami, Yossi Alpher or even Dershowitz type who would take the more liberal position in support of Israel to speak on the campus, but I suppose it would be too expensive for a student group to get someone that high level to speak and it might create division between Israeli supporters and that might not be what AFI is about?
Not at all. We've had Dershowitz before, and I would love to hose Morris, Ben-Ami or other liberal Zionists. I am afraid Gary would consider Morris and Ben-Ami anti-Israel, so we might want to get him to "check" them off first.
The students would also love it, and it is possible the cost would not be too bad - plus groups like the Rose Project are likely to heavily subsidize if not pay for the event if it is practical and well organized.
Matan,
ReplyDeleteI am aware there is a question about his claims to be an ex-terrorist and to having bombed a building in Bethlehem and having been in a particular jail. I weighed all that in posting his article. You need to challenge the facts he presented-particularly the information about Sarsur.
You are correct that Ansari's views may not be the views of the others. That still remains to be seen. I am wondering how her and her husband got included on these trips since they are not listed on the Citzen peac Building site.
As to Oren. As a courtesy to him, I have already deleted his name and paraphrased his words from his blog since I had not noticed his disclaimer about not using the blog's words. Of course, if you don't want to be quoted you should not put them in a blog, but after having seen the disclaimer, I decided to respect his wishes anyway. Oren has stated his love for Israel many times, and I take him at his word.
@Gary
ReplyDeleteI am glad you chose to do so. It is not the place to put students who are already devotedly pro-Israel on a cross to test "how pro-Israel they are", not in this day and age of groups like Jewish Voices for Jihad, er Peace, which are the REAL problems.
Ansari, like anyone, is allowed to attend the community trip. I do not think there is any restrictions, as it is supposed to be a "sample" of the trip for the adult community and supporters.
Maybe you should raise some money in OC and go on the next one so you can report directly about OTI. I would personally donate $100 out of my nearly empty bank account.
As far as the comments on Sarsur, and we had this discussion after our meeting (but it was not included on the blog), he is a joke, a liar, a fraud, and not even Arab-Israelis take him seriously or like him very much.
Matan,
ReplyDeleteUnderstood, but I still hope both of you will warch that video.
Well, Gary, Matan says the Arab League was NOT at the meeting and your July 13th blog thread, Obama's Latest Slap at Israel, says they were there. It started as the main point of the discussion.
ReplyDeleteIs it true or not, to your knowledge or as far as you can verify, whether the Arab League was there?
I don't know where Matan gets his information on this either.
What's your source, Matan?
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Matan,
ReplyDeleteYour point that OTI can't be responsible for everything the participants say is well taken except that the OTI financiers and supporters claim that the students all come back more pro-Israel than before the trip.
I don't think that is true and if you are now backing away from what the participants write then the defenders will also have to back away from their claim.
.
Does your group or other groups record the lectures and put them up on youtube? I might be interested in hearing what Ranaan Gissan, Ismael Khaldi, and Adelman had to say.
ReplyDeleteThe off the top of my head list I'd like to see invited to speak. I know I'd go to the campus to listen to the lectures.
1. Morris - by far my first pick
2. Shlomo Ben Ami
3. Asher Susser - very good speaking style. When he speaks, you want to hear what next is going to come out of his mouth.
4. Sam Harris (have to have a very open minded group willing to challenge their own beliefs so don't know if a group would support spending an appearance fee for his visit).
5. Yossi Alpher
6. Dershowitz - I thought he planned to come after the Oren incident but I don't recall him ever coming. I did a search and saw he spoke in 2007 on the campus.
@Miggie
ReplyDeleteYour point that OTI can't be responsible for everything the participants say is well taken except that the OTI financiers and supporters claim that the students all come back more pro-Israel than before the trip.
Not at all backing away, I was posing hypotheticals. Definitely the Jewish students I know come back more pro-Israel and with a stronger understanding of the conflict and of the lies used.
@Anon
ReplyDeleteDoes your group or other groups record the lectures and put them up on youtube?
Unfortunately, no (also it is not my group!), but we have started a new Social Media program that will start what you are suggesting next year.
I think Ben-Ami or Morris would be top picks, and I can think of a few others as well - like Uvi Averny.
@Miggie
ReplyDeleteIs it true or not, to your knowledge or as far as you can verify, whether the Arab League was there?
Here are my sources. Look for the words "Arab League"
1. CNN
3. The Israel Project
Matan,
ReplyDeleteClearly stated, here is my take on OTI. First, the Palestinian activists on these OTI trips are using you.
Second, it is my suspicion that the older adults involved in oti and the Center for Citizen Peace Building are also mostly pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, and they are using you as well.
Finally, activists don't make peace between nations. Peace is made by the involved governments.
When you look at all these so-called peace groups, they generally have two things in common; they are generally on the side of the bad guys and they want the good guys to surrender.
That is their peace.
@Gary
ReplyDeleteFirst-off, I want to say that I am personally glad people are looking out for the youth. I think sometimes in a defensive rant we can come off as "rawr old people are dumb", but the genuine concern you have is appreciated.
That being said:
First, the Palestinian activists on these OTI trips are using you
Would you are to elaborate? And which activists? All of them, or just Sam, Mazin, and George? Are there any Palestinian activists you could suggest as alternatives?
Second, it is my suspicion that the older adults involved in OTI and the Center for Citizen Peace Building are also mostly pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, and they are using you as well.
As long as you acknowledge that it is a suspicion and not ground any fact or studies. You showed me a blog of one person that was pro-Palestinian, I know a polar opposite on the Citizen Peace Building board (very Zionist).
Finally, activists don't make peace between nations. Peace is made by the involved governments.
You are entirely correct. But if the people hate each other, how long lasting is that peace? Most of the arguments against Egypt's revolution has been the peace with Israel is unstable, because the only person wanting to hold up that peace (Sadat, then Mubarak) are no longer in power.
It is important, to at least some degree, that the people trust each-other. And if Americans can't trust each-other, god save the Middle East.
When you look at all these so-called peace groups, they generally have two things in common; they are generally on the side of the bad guys and they want the good guys to surrender.
I have a lot of criticism of "peace" groups, including criticism of Peace Now, J-Street, but also groups like Anti-War, ANSWER, etc. You have good people with positive ideas mixed in with hateful ones with negative ideas.
So I share a lot of your same views regarding far-left psuedo-activists that actual have an agenda, but pretend to be even-handed and "justice seeking". That is actually my biggest focus in studying anti-Israel activity - it is easy to target the turban wearing AK-47 guy, but the suit-wearing 30 year old with a nice smile is the biggest problem.
Matan,
ReplyDeleteI am referring to all of them I have researched, George, George, Sam, Mazin etc.
No I don't know any I would recommend to you. You might ask the Israelis.
BTW: who is the pro-Zionist on CCPB? Would you care to break them down for me?
Matan,
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Arab League being present at the July 13th meeting with the Quartet without Israel, I was wrong. I'm sorry.
I read Gary's blog entry on that date and the link to the article and relied on that. Since then I've taken too much time reading all the press releases about the meeting, including the J Post.
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=228945
There was nothing in any of the articles I read, even in the Arab press pieces about Arab League participation.
There seems to be some kind of Arab Quartet that had meetings around the same time but that is not the same thing.
I got worked up for nothing on a false issue unnecessarily. I took the article from the link in Gary's blog at face value.
Gary,
I recommend that you stop using that source.
I still have the same view of OTI because I think it is very basically a bad idea. The fact that this or that student became a better advocate is something that may well have happened anyway, as it has throughout our history. I think the students are no match for the Palestinian advocates and I will explain why some other place and time. This post is dedicated to my admitting my mistake in believing the wrong source and getting too upset about it before checking it further.
It just goes to show you can't believe what you read on the internet.
.
The source involved is doc's talk a very pro-israel source. If I'm not mistaken, other sources also mentioned the Arab League including ( I think) Fox News. So is it clear that AL was not present?
ReplyDeleteI Googled a bunch of articles and none of them had any reference to the Arab League attending. You would think the J Post would mention it.
ReplyDeleteMatan,
ReplyDeleteHere is a rebuttal to the CNN story on Shoebat. It is by Pam Geller.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/cnn-the-crescent-news-network-is-at-it-again-target-walid-shoebat.html#more
These are the facts about Matan Lurey who defends the Olive Tree Initiative in these comments and elesewhere:
ReplyDeleteLurey,onhis Facebook page, since removed has stated the way to a peace settlement between Israel and the Arabs if for Israel to stop being a Jewish state. He defends Mazin Qumsiyeh who has stated "Zionism is a disease" and advocated for the deportation of all Jews from Israel. Qumsiyeh is a PFLP operative who the OTI program has given carte blance to
give lectures to students where he says all he wants is for Jews, Arabs, etc. to live in a secular non-Jewish state. This is the PFLP communist platform warmed over. Walid Shoebat grew up with Qumsiyeh and can confirm he was PFLP. Shoebat is no fraud bu Matan Lurey is having created a sinecure for himself through the OTI program. That means a job free trips to the Middle East, etc. I don't know if Matan is an infiltrator for the ISM, but he is clearly not promoting peace, but rather the end of Israel as a Jewish state. Your readers need to know this. His contemporary at UCLA with OTI named Youdeem is doing the same thing. He was a member of the SJP at UCLA before joining and promoting OTI there. ThE SJP's platform calls for the end of Israel also.
Are these "Jewish" boys doing this as infiltrators of the ISM to use subterfuge to help bring down a Jewish state? Or are they simpy taking care of themselves at the expense of the rest of the Jewish community? It's hard to tell, but I suspect the latter.
Walid Shoebat translated the Arabic spoken by Sarsur the Arab MK who lectured on the OTI tour. In it, Sarsur calls for the end of Israel, killing Jews and a new Caliphate in Jerusalem. At the OTI lecture in English Sarsur claimed he is a loyal Israeli citizen and that the Jewish state discriminates against its hapless Arab citizens. It isn't hard to imagine the impression this can make on dupes like Lurey and Youdeem who are also motivated by money and positions in the University system. The Sarusr translation can be found at www.shoebat.com .
Anyone seeking more information can email me at StoptheISM@att.net for more details.
Lee,
ReplyDeleteSince the young men you mention are students, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt here. The real bad actors in my view, are the older adults who are involved. I know that young students are being badly manipulated by the likes of Qumsiyeh, Bahour, and the Rishmawis. As for the older American organizers of OTI, the best I can say is that they may simply be naive peace activists who really think they are going to help bring peace to the Middle East. The worst I suspect is that many if not most of them are Palestinian sympathizers, and they may well be exploiting idealistic young students who want peace and co-existence. We shall see.
I think a lot of people involved on the US side of the OTI have visions of Nobel Peace Prizes dancing in their heads. The idea of playing a role in bringing about peace in the Middle East is an intoxicating drug for many. That may be the case for the students. It is that intoxicating idea that the ISM et al is playing upon. We have seen far too many instances of these so-called peace organizations merely working for the surrender of the good side.
Gary,
ReplyDeleteI too am a student of OTI, and in fact, a rather staunch pro-Israel advocate. I am hurt by some of the comments I've read here in regards to my group, especially those by Lee Kaplan attacking Matan. It is unfortunate because now it would seem that he is trying to turn everyone against Matan. On campus, Matan has 'Zionist' written all over his head, and as a result, faces hatred/apathy when he tries to speak with many pro-Palestinians. And now, Lee Kaplan is trying to make Zionists hate him too? I don't understand how this is helping the pro-Israel movement that is so fragile at this point, by trying to tear down one of Israel's best advocates on campus that defends it down to the very last degree.
In regards to OTI, I believe the program must remain a neutral, apolitical group in order to be effective. The truth of the matter is that "previously anti-Israel students" return from the trip more moderate and understanding, sometimes apologetic for their ill-conceived notions before they are exposed to the reality that Israeli's experience everyday. Their anti-Israel rhetoric is a matter of not being educated, and OTI is the first group to effectively be able to educate them. Does the group meet with some Palestinian speakers as well? Yes…the same speakers that an AIPAC policy trip will meet with (they actually meet with some a higher degree of radical speakers then OTI…) and the same speakers that Israeli negotiators meet with on a regular basis.
I feel as if people are always ganging up on us as if we have a biased trip. Do people not realize that OTI is the first program that was able to effectively engage MSU students from a rather radical chapter at UCI and bring them to Israel, get them to meet with Mark Regev (Netanyahu's press secretary), meet with Holocaust Victims, go to Yad Vashem, meet with Ron Nachman of Ariel, meet in Sderot where a family talks about how many rockets Gaza Hamas has sent over to their neighborhood. How can they not return more understanding of Israel's position, feeling embarrassed for miscalculating the whole situation there? We are at a time when Israel is coming under unfair and disproportionate criticism by all, and OTI is the first group to change this. Ask the AFI president: OTI does more to turn people pro-Israel then AFI does. Thats because AFI only engages already pro-Israel people, and OTI is able to engage neutrals, pro-Israelis, pro-Palestinians alike.
I realize the group may not be for everyone. But I too encourage you to go on an OTI community trip. I guarantee that you will end up returning even more pro-Israel, and will even have the amazing chance to critically engage the key players of the governments from Israel and the PLO and have interesting conversations with many who go on it. Help us to create a safer community on campus where Jews can live in peace.
I really respect that you are looking out for the interest of the students. Please continue to engage us and I ask you to please not judge us or the program until you have heard from us. There are many pro-Israel advocates and Jewish students on UCI's campus that feel utterly neglected by much of the Jewish community.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your eloquent comment. I myself have nothing personal against Matan, and he has always been free to comment and respond on this blog. He says he seupports Israel, and I take him at his word. I am sure Matan, like many others, wants to be a bridge and do his share to bring peace.
As for OTI, I tried to keep an open mind, but the more I learned the less I like it. When Dee S. was raising the issue of ISM involvement, she was publicly attacked by the OC Jewish Federation and Hillel as they denied her charges. During all that time, the Fed was neglecting to inform the community that OTI had met with a Hamas official, Aziz Duwaik, in 2009. It took a Freedom of Information request to the university to pry loose that letter from the Fed re that meeting.
I have come to the opinion that the May events at UCI have not shown a moderation of the MSU views-quite the opposite.
I have also come to the conclusion there are too many indications that the people who operate oti tend to be overwhelming on the other side.
Most importantly, however, given events in the West Bank in the past couple of years, it is clear that oti is sending students into harms way. If God forbid, one of you kids gets hurt over there, a lot of people will be liable.
So I intend to keep looking at this venture.
Hey Gary,
ReplyDeleteI definitely understand your worries, and thank you for worrying about our safety.
The best I can say, is that the speakers you raise questions about are just speakers- not members of OTI. I was not involved in 2009 when Aziz Duweik spoke, but I also know that AIPAC speaks with him on their policy trip and that many groups dealing on behalf of Israel (Washington Institute, etc.) have met with him, specifically in Israeli territory and at the UN building. I also understand the ISM question, and its very interesting how encountering that perspective does more to turn off radicalism than anything else as it is quite upsetting to see. Like I said, these are not members of the OTI, in fact, they wouldn't qualify to even be members. They are just speakers, just like watching someone on the television, only having the chance to ask them hard questions like press agents.
That's the best idea I can give. These are part of the narrative and a part of the problem for why we don't have peace. We meet with around 70 speakers on the trip, and I would only say around two or three of them give us the radical perspective (from either side, which is not equal). We are trying to holistically learn what all the roadblocks are to peace, and then speak together how we can help overcome them. Its purely about education, in my opinion: As a Jew, its really hard, quite painful actually, for me to learn about Nazis, or to watch a movie detailing the atrocities of WWII. But its something I must do- something that brings me so much closer my Jewish identity, and something which makes me want to preserve the right for a Jewish state, makes me advocate even more for Israel. So does the trip. You can ask Matan what he was like before the trip- quite lazy (sorry Matan). The trip and the group inspired him to advocate strongly for Israel to the point that he quashes every mis-conception that anyone brings up. What the trip does is just educate- and students can decide from their personally. The problem and the reason that Israel faces such a PR problem is because many people across universities and the liberal media is grossly misinformed on the realities. The trip at least exposes everyone, and shows them the truth for themselves. In my opinion, the neutral trip ends up creating more understanding of Israel than anything else. I don't know any OTI member that leaves the trip with an anti-Israel flair in fact. That's why its so surprising for me to find out people are so worried about OTI. I respect your worries though and like I said, your worries about security are definitely sound. Its quite a risk, and something the Israeli's face everyday. My hope is that some peace will someday be achieved during my lifetime so they don't have to live in constant fear again.
I know the leadership of OTI tries to be as transparent as possible, so I'm sure they would be willing to engage with you if you had concerns or questions to voice.
Thanks again for your research and interests- it shows you care!
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I think you need to keep in mind that citizen activists do not bring peace. Only governments bring peace when they agree to end hostilites or the bad guys lose a just war to the good guys.
I am much more pessimistic than you are. There is such a large element that wants to bring about the destruction of Israel. Jew hatred is a large part of that. It's not only in the ME, but in Europe as well. We are also seeing it here.
One reason I am concerned is because I am an amateur scholar on the Third Reich. I spent my military service just outside of Nuremberg.I have visited Auschwitz and other notorious camps. In my book on Erlangen, I did a lot of research into what happened to that town's Jewish residents.
What I see is the world reverting back to the 1930s, and facing a choice as to what to do about it. It is a choice of being Neville Chamberlain or Winston Churchill. Laugh if you wish, but it is the world that your generation is inheriting.
As for the OTI, don't think for one minute that those Palestinians you are meeting are not linked to or otherwise involved with ISM.
Finally, you are welcome to continue posting as anonymous if you wish, but don't you think your words would carry more wait if you identified yourself?
Hey Gary,
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about posting by name, but I must admit that I actually was quite upset after Lee personally attacking and criticizing Matan.
Like I said, I may have a more idealistic mind than most, for better or for worse. I gotta hope for peace for my people. :-) Around 1/3 of the students would be classified as pro-Israeli if you questioned them.
I agree that anti-semitism and anti-Israel rhetoric is far too common. Thats the main reason I got involved in OTI as it has shown the power to change this. I know we students are not politicians, but we go on to create our future- we have alum that go on to jobs with AIPAC, the US Dept. of State, etc. We are interested in learning. Many of us are purely interested in politics, republicans and democrats, pro-Israel, pro-Palestinian alike. The group does not advocate, and is a-political. It just delivers a really engaging trip and studies the events rigorously and extremely academically. I encourage you to continue to research it and critique it- I just ask that that critics not make generalizations about the students or leadership involved without at least speaking with us directly. The itinerary can be critiqued, but I know the majority of the OTI students and leadership involved that would take extreme offense to being called anti-semetic. We have alum that have made aliyah, and some Israeli's that have served for the IDF. Please don't badmouth their great service and putting their lives on the line for the state of Israel.
Why would I bad-mouth them? I support Israel. You will note that I don't attack the students, nor have I attacked Matan.
ReplyDeleteGary has not attacked me. But Gary, some of your close friends do not have the same professional mindset you employ, I have gotten a number of hate-mail and near-death threats from over-excited community members.
ReplyDeleteI think the only thing I ask of Gary (and others) that if you are going to make critiques, which I entirely applaud doing so, at least have evidence to back it up. And at least 1% of that evidence should be a primary source - that is, talking to me (everyone has my email) or to any other student or faculty past or present.
That's the only fair and professional thing to do. The Lee Kaplan's of the world can continue to call me anti-Semitic while my cousins are deployed on the Lebanese border.
Matan,
ReplyDeleteI was wondering why you had not responded earlier.
Trying to enjoy the last few hours of my weekend like everyone else.
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