Did you know that to this day, Mein Kampf is a best-seller in the Arab world? The word "kampf" is translated into Arabic as, "jihad". Another book that still sells is the (forged) "Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
And yet, they call the Israelis "Nazis".
During WW II, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a virulent anti-Semite, wound up in Berlin, where he was a guest of Hitler.
While living in Berlin, he made a series of broadcasts to the Middle East, calling on Arabs to rise up and drive out the Jews. He also helped organized a Bosnian SS division, which participated in the killing of Jews.
And yet, the call the Israelis "Nazis".
After the creation of Israel in 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews were driven from their homes in the Middle East, where they and their families had lived for centuries.
And yet they call the Israelis "Nazis".
During the fighting in Gaza, pro-Palestinian demonstrations were held all over North America. In Ft Lauderdale, there were calls for Jews to" go back to the ovens". In Los Angeles, there were shouts of "Heil Hitler", "Hitler rest in peace" and "F the Jews."
And yet they call the Israelis "Nazis".
The Hamas charter, which rejects any negotiations and calls for the destruction of the Jewish state, also includes a reference to the hadith which talks of the Day of Judgement when Jews will hide behind trees and the trees will call out to the Muslims to "come and kill the Jew hiding behind me."
And yet they call the Israelis "Nazis".
The leader of Hizbollah in Lebanon has called for the Jews of the world to gather in Israel so it won't be so hard to hunt them all down.
And yet they call the Israelis "Nazis".
During the terrorist attack in Mumbai, the local Chabat House was also targeted. The rabbi and his wife were tortured, brutally killed, and mutilated in front of their toddler child.
And yet they call the Israelis "Nazis".
Today in most European countries, Jews are afraid to appear in public in Jewish garb lest they be insulted, spit at or physically attacked by young Muslim immigrants. The Jews of Malmo, Sweden are leaving in droves due to the persecution. Jewish Cemeteries and synagogues have routinely been attacked and/or defaced.
And yet they call the Israelis "Nazis".
Today in the Middle East including the Palestinian Territory in the West Bank, Jews are portrayed in the mainstream press as pigs, monkeys and blood suckers.
And yet, they call the Israelis Nazis.
Here is a cartoon posted on the "mock Israeli Wall" by the Muslim Student Union at UC-Irvine during the annual Israeli Apartheid Week a couple of years back. It portrays Ariel Sharon.
And yet, they call Israelis Nazis.
A few years ago at UC-Irvine, an imam said that, "You can take a Jew out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the Jew."
http://www.investigativeproject.org/239/muhammad-al-asi-ghetto-jews
And yet, they call the Israelis "Nazis".
I ask you...........
who are the real Nazis?
I declare a century-long moratorium on anybody comparing anybody to Nazis.
ReplyDeleteHitler and Stalin could play this kind of rhetorical defense against each other ad infinitum, and for most of the history of World War II, did so.
ReplyDeleteThe blood on one party's hands does not absolve the other of the blood on their own.
Judaism = Nazism
ReplyDeleteWhat Nazism was to the Germans, Judaism is to the Jews.
Both are pseudo-ethnic nationalist movements.
Both are ideological crimes against humanity.
Hey Art, here's a history lesson for you.
ReplyDeleteZionism was inspired by the desire of European Jews to go back to their original homeland because they could not live free of persecution in Europe. The Holocaust proved them right.
The Nazis did not go into Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia and all those other countries because they were fleeing persecution, did they?
I won't even go into all the dissimilarities like death camps, gas chambers, firing squads etc-that do not exist in Israel, but what's the use?
What you are spouting is the far-left, university, Palestinian propaganda you probably were spoon fed in college. Start doing some legitimite research for a change.
Which reminds me, Ted, did you hear the joke about the prisoner who found an ant in his cell and spent the next 10 years training it to......
ReplyDeleteHere is another well researched article on this topic. The problem with presenting more evidence is that you supply more points to quibble with, more caviling, and more irrelevant and false analogies to make. All of which serve to make the point, once again, that viewpoints persist even in the face of stubborn facts.
ReplyDeletehttp://4international.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/the-nazis-did-not-create-antisemitism-in-islam-it-predated-hitler/
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Well, this is an embarrasse de richesse of historical distortion all around. Further, one person's idiocy feeds the next ignoramus's sense of outrage. Where shall I begin?
ReplyDeleteSquid is too incoherent to respond to coherently, so moving on to Miggie, there is nothing about being victimized by political oppression which immunizes any national or religious groups from practicing the same on others. France put its energy into creating an empire in Africa to salve its wounds for the drubbing they got from Germany in 1870. If ethics and solidarity reigned supreme, you would think France would have said, oh no, us visit the atrocities on Africa that Germany visited on us? No, no, we are in solidarity with oppressed people all over the world!" Fat chance.
Ditto for gang fights between African Americans and Hispanic Americans. Ditto for gang fights between recently arrived Mexicans (Surenos) and longer-established Mexican Americans (Nortenos). Ditto for the Chinese who took their country back from western imperialists, only to imperialize Tibet. Ditto for Israel, formed be people fleeing Nazi oppression (and more congenial but more deeply rooted second class citizenship in Europe), who have in fact treated many Palestinians as second class people.
Does that make them Nazi? It is a bit of a stretch, but the hands of Israel are not exactly squeaky clean, so don't overdo the outrage over the comparison.
There are a lot of pseudo-ethnic nationalist movements to go around. There is no such thing as "Arab unity" because the various peoples categorized as "Arabs" have spent most of their history fighting each other. Israel's first war, in 1948, was largely fought against a handful of degenerate monarchies. The next two wars were fought mostly against the national socialist governments that overthrew said monarchies. Yes, I said national socialist - and that is what they were and/or are.
As Gary assumed, Art undoubtedly meant to say "Zionism," not "Judaism." Judaism is to Jews what Roman Catholicism is to Italians. Zionism is a nationalist ideology, which has socialist and non-socialist variants. The socialist variants were instrumental in creating Israel, at a time when liberals and leftists danced the Hava Nagila, while conservatives connived with Arabs to get rid of the Jews. Now the non-socialist variants are dominant, conservatives love Jews (for as long as that seems useful), and what passes for declasse "leftists" make a fetish of trashing Israel, not that there is anything "left" about ANY extant Palestinian or Arab group.
Gary, a visitor from another planet who was heir to none of our prides or shames, might observe that the Nazis led Germany into Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia, in search of lebensraum for the German volk, and Zionists led Jewish people into the West Bank in search of lebensraum for Jews. Not an exact parallel, but closer than friends of Israel can afford to overlook.
Which reminds me Gary, did you hear the joke about the young man who gave the world photos of the nuclear weapons facility Israel denied having, who was seduced by a Mossad prostitute, kidnapped in violation of Italian law, and spent the next twenty years trying to train an ant to...
Like I said, nobody's hands are clean, and nobody has much credibility shrieking about the crimes of their immediate adversaries, or screaming from the safety and comfort of North America with the fans of the team that your team is fighting with.
Siarlys,
ReplyDeleteYour comment is an embarasse d'absurdite. Are you sure you are commenting on the right thread? You remind me of the center fielder who walked out to the mound and starting warming up for the 1st inning.
Gary, I think that Siarlys is just able to see a bigger picture than either you or Miggie are able (or is it willing?) to see.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your final question: the Nazis were the real Nazis. These constant comparisons (by both sides) do nothing to further the debate or the peace process, and in fact pay a disrespect towards those who actually suffered under the Nazi regime.
ReplyDeleteHere's a great story that serves as a counter-point to all of this nonsense: Albanian Muslims risk their own lives to save Jews from Nazis during World War II
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFair enough up to a point. Perhaps it would be better to ask "who is really acting like Nazis". Would you like it better then?
As for the Albanian Muslims you cite, bravo for them. Is it possible they were saving the Jews from the Bosnian SS division? I guess I better read it.
Gary, you have an unfortunate tendency to avoid historical detail when it fails to match your preconceived notions. Rather sad for an author of authoritative books on languages.
ReplyDeleteHere's why I don't understand how the "Mufti" and all that nonsense is even relevant: let's say it's conceded that he was a Muslim and supported the Nazis... And? So? Last I checked the vast majority of Nazi supporters and the Nazis themselves were Christians. Does this mean you can draw conclusions from that about all Christians or Christianity in general? Certainly not. So I'm not sure why you could do so with Muslims and Islam, other than that it's convenient for your, "Mooslims are scary and evil!" narrative.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteHere's a suggestion: go back and read the original post. It talks about Middle East sentiments, words and actions that mirror nazi acts, words and deeds.
And what does something that happened 60+ years ago have to do with contemporary attitudes in the Middle East?
ReplyDeleteAnd your starting point is absurd anyways, because the "Middle East" isn't some monolith with homogenous views, opinions, beliefs and attitudes. But again, your thinking is typical of someone who has a black and white world view.
Gary, can't you ever lose a debate with a little dignity? He blew a huge hole in your argument, and all you can do is dodge it. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, but there is something wrong with not admitting that you're wrong when you're clearly spectacularly wrong.
ReplyDeleteStop it, Lance. He blew nothing but hot air. I pointed out in the original post the wide currency that Mein Kampf and the Protocols still have in the middle east. He must have skipped over it.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDelete"And what does something that happened 60+ years ago have to do with contemporary attitudes in the Middle East?"
Something more recent, perhaps?
http://garyfouse.blogspot.com/2010/05/words-of-yusuf-al-qaradawi.html
At risk that this will go over Gary's head by the time I finish agreeing with him, the Grand Mufti is perfectly relevant. Israel, and its neighbors, do have a history, and current events do grow out of that history, however distorted everyone's understanding has become, however different the actual goals and beliefs of the actors on the stage now, compared to the actors on the stage then.
ReplyDeleteThe fanatical rage against "the Jews" settling in the land Roman legions had renamed "Palestina" 1800 or so years before was fanned from glowing embers into flames by demagogues who sought to preserve their own political fiefs. The Grand Mufti was one of them. He was a particularly effective demagogue.
Feudal landlords governing various Arabic speaking tribelets felt that their hold on their (Arab) subjects was threatened by the presence of Jewish socialists who treated men and women equally, introduced modern agriculture, and promoted universal literacy. They could hardly get their subjects whipped into a frenzy over the prospect of such amenities, so instead they announced "the Jews are taking our land."
Of course, some Jews, in some place, DID take Arab land, although the early Zionist settlers mostly were granted land at exorbitant prices that nobody else could make a living off of in the first place.
King Abdullah of Jordan contemplated that the Jews might be useful subjects once he conquered Palestine in 1948. As we know, he didn't. Neither did King Farouk of Egypt, or King Feisal of Iraq, or the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
I won't recount in detail how Jewish socialists backed by the Soviet Union and denigrated by American conservatives gave birth to a nation plagued by secular atheist Arab national socialist terrorists, where today conservative narrow-minded nationalist Jews run a government attacked by devout Muslim terrorists.
Its a tangled mess. Would-be leftists who fondly remember the atheist secular socialist Arabs (led by kleptomaniac failed engineering students), can't quite let go of feeling a surge of sympathy for religiously conservative Muslims, while American conservatives are now falling over themselves to promote Israel.
The Grand Mufti does have a place in this history, and it is worth exploring. If everyone involved REALLY took a good look at their own history, they would all look at each other and say "What are we fighting for anyway?"