Last night on Fox's Sean Hannity Show, David Horowitz and UC-Irvine Professer Mark LeVine were interviewed in regards to Horowitz's appearance this week at UC San Diego, in which a member of the Muslim Student Association made a controversial remark in answer to Horowitz's question. This led to an angry exchange between LeVine (a Palestinian supporter)and Horowitz, in which charges of dishonesty were thrown back and forth. At one point, Horowitz referred to a seized document purporting to show a connection between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Muslim Student Association. As one who also teaches at UC-Irvine, I watched the segment with more than passing interest.
On October 8, 2008, I attended a presentation at UC-Irvine, which was held in Mr LeVine's class (and open to the public)by Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Ibrahim Al-Houdaiby of Egypt. Mr Al-Houdaiby's theme was that the Muslim Brotherhood opposes violence, condemned 9-11, is trying to achieve understanding with the West, and is trying to bring democratic reform to Egypt. During the Q&A, I presented Al-Houdaiby with English and Arabic copies of a document seized by the FBI and presented as evidence in the Holy Land Foundation trial. In this document, a representative from the MB (Mohamed Akram)is writing to the "North American brothers" telling them that their role in North America is to work to destroy its "miserable house" from within. (It appears that this is the same document Horowitz was referring to last night on Hannity.) Here is the video of my question to Al-Houdaibi in Mark LeVine's class. It was shot by Jonathan Movroydis of Red County Campus Watch and is from Reut R Cohen blog.
Here is the link to the document, both in Arabic and English. On page 18, there is a list of affiliated organizations, which includes the Muslim Students Association (number 2).
http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf
Mr Al Houdaiby denied the authenticity of the document and stated it must have been a forgery. In his remarks and subsequent comments to my below-linked article, he referred to Muslim Brotherhood founder Hasan al-Banna and Muslim Brotherhood scholar and writer, Yusef Al-Qaradawy, as being against terrorism. Here is my posting from October 8, 2008.
http://garyfouse.blogspot.com/2008/10/muslim-brotherhood-speaker-appears-at.html
Subsequently, I wrote another post entitled, "Where is Ibrahim El Houdaiby?". That led to another exchange of comments (see below).
http://garyfouse.blogspot.com/2008/10/where-is-ibrahim-el-houdaiby.html
Another previous posting of mine featured LeVine's written statement of defense of the Muslim Student Union members who were arrested for disrupting the speech by the Israeli ambassador on February 8, 2010.
http://garyfouse.blogspot.com/2010/02/professor-mark-levine-comments-on-uci.html
I write this because much of the exchange between Horowitz and LeVine last night revolved around alleged connections between the MB and the Muslim Students Association and anti-Israel events on college campuses. (Israel Apartheid Week just concluded Thursday at UC-Irvine.)
I watched the Hannity clip, and I was reminded why those kinds of shows are a waste of time. Not nearly enough time was given to discuss anything of any actual substance. It's all about rushing in there and tossing out your soundbites as quickly as you can. Conservatives are good at this format though because many of their points are little more than that - soundbites. Even more to their advantage, they're willing to be completely dishonest in order to get their opponents to waste time countering their falsehoods rather than get to their own points.
ReplyDelete(Levine makes reference to a previous debate where Horowitz flung some accusation about what was in Levine's book, only to later admit that he hadn't read it. I vaguely recall seeing this debate.)
Levine had a good point at the end there, and Hannity and Horowitz just completely dismissed it. So long as all student groups, regardless of political affiliation, get money from the university, then you can't single out one particular group. Now, I haven't considered all sides to this yet, but it actually seems like the only solution would be to stop ALL student groups from receiving funds. (I can't really think of a reason why any of them should get money in the first place.)
Lance,
ReplyDeleteWhat a nice little slime job you did in your comment. First you accuse conservatives of launching only soundbites just to make a point and then you do exactly the same thing. Do you have any sense of irony? Clearly, rhetoric isn't your strong suit as aptly demonstrated by your writing.
You do your best to be an apologist for Levine on the low-low, but unfortunately, due to your already demonstrated lack of rhetorical skill (OK, maybe it's your poor writing too), you betray that which you are trying to hide. Levine is, and has been for many years, a Jew-hating Marxist Radical Jew that would be more likely to celebrate Ramadan in the West Bank than to eat bitter herbs during Passover. The evidence is so plentiful, and from such a breadth of sources, that to believe otherwise is to suspend rationality. But that is rather commonplace on the Left...
Your assertion that any single student group can't be "singled out" because they except money from the university is a silly proposition. Conservative student groups that receive university money get "singled out" all the time by groups on the Left accusing them of "hate speech." So "singling out" the MSA is nothing new, and entirely appropriate if they espouse views supportive of racial genocide, which the MSA does.
I do agree with you on one point. Student groups should be self-funding. The current system simply wastes taxpayer dollars on frivolous activities.
PoppaKap,
ReplyDeleteYou know what? I'll give you the point that I committed an act of gross over-generalization in my original response. I should have written something more along the lines of "conservatives like Horowitz".
Basically, yeah, you've got me on that one. I went and cast the first stone while committing the same sin.
You should have left well enough alone though, as the rest of your response takes a sharp-turn into Crazy Town. (Actually, all you can do is insult me at the beginning, too. Tell ya what, spanky, I'll go toe-to-toe with your rhetorical and/or writing style any day of the week.)
It doesn't matter if Levine is a self-hating Marxist Jew or a Thor-worshipping Whig. That wasn't my point. Go reread what I wrote. I realize that I don't write very well (I get that accusation ALL the time - in the Bizarro Universe) but I think that you'll find it in the last paragraph. Why don't you try addressing THAT?
Conservative groups on UC campuses are singled out, eh? Have they lost their funding? Because that's what the issue is here. If you can show me that they lost their funding due to their views, then you have a point. Until then, you're completely missing what I, and Levine, were even trying to say.
Perhaps it's not my writing style but your acute case of obtuseness.
Thanks again for publishing all this information. I am learning quite a bit here.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteThank you. Sometimes it is hard to get both sides of an issue ona university campus. Seems a contradiction in terms, don't you think?
http://fortruthforjustice.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/ucsd-muslim-student-responds-to-david-horowitz-event/
ReplyDeleteThe "For It" lady now says she couldn't hear what Horowitz was saying...she was emotional...she was coerced into giving an impression that grossly misrepresented her beliefs and ideologies.
A few points, please-
ReplyDelete1. Religious groups get more funding at UCI. Political groups like Young Dems or College Repubs, or even the Ayn Rand Club, get very little funding in comparison.
2. The Ayn Rand Club never said they support massacring American Indians so Mark LeVine is a liar or can't understand basic English.
3. To get funds for events in the UC system which is a public system, student groups have to file forms. If I wanted to host an event that was anti-Mexican or anti-Black, I would not get funds. I guarantee it. The MSA groups get funds to call for the demise of Jews. Why does the MSA get special treatment? Because it is religious group and people treat Muslims with special care.
4. Horowitz may not be the best speaker or research go to guy, but he is correct that the Muslim Brotherhood names the MSA as an organization to "sabotage" America from within. Go to-- http://www.investigativeproject.org/610/soft-pedaling-radical-islam-the-new-york
Lastly-- thank you Gary for what you do.
UC Student,
ReplyDeleteReplies to your points:
1 I don't know.
2 I don't know.
3 My opinion is that the MSU is treated with kid gloves because they are considered one of those "protected classes" while other minorities are not, and the administration is deathly afraid of lawsuits (which are on the way if the MSU is disciplined.)
4 See the MB document seized by the FBI in the Holy Land Foundation trial which I referenced.
Thank you for your comment and support.
UC Student,
ReplyDeleteIf you're right, then those points are definitely worth considering. However, a quick Google search shows that Ayn Rand once said the following:
"They didn’t have any rights to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using . . . . What was it that they were fighting for, when they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their ‘right’ to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, but just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or a few caves above it. Any white person who brings the element of civilization has the right to take over this continent."- Address to West Point, 1974
It seems to me that it's reasonable that people who are "fans" of hers might see things the same way. Perhaps Levine is assuming too much though.
Lance,
ReplyDeleteAyn Rand is talking about history. She has a opinion about this history. A history she had nothing to do with.
The MSA is openly calling for the genocide of the Jews in this moment in time. Since you seem to position yourself on the side of "right" why are you running from defending "right"?
Your logic is circular and lacks coherence.
Lance,
ReplyDeleteI don't see what Ayn Rand has to do with what the MSA girl said in San Diego.
Thanks for clearing up one point for me, however- that Ayn Rand was a woamn.
Some more points....
ReplyDeleteI am in agreement with Lance about student groups and funding. Tuition is high. Most of the stuff we fund is pointless anyways. I don't like supporting religious groups or terrorist supporters, for example. I don't want to support some cultural groups either. Take MECHA as an example. It is an organization built on identity politics.
After reading some comments here I think I have a better picture. LeVine is deliberately mis-characterizing the Objectivist view in the video here.
This explains the POV of Ayn Rand supporters (and the woman herself, I think): http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth--1345-Property_rights_and_Native_Americans.aspx
Rand's issue was property rights and the idea that American Indians did not fathom the notion of property rights. However the philosophy of Objectivism is opposed to genocide which makes LeVine's claim disingenuous. There is no support for slaughtering American Indians because one cannot take another man's life according to the Objectivist philosophy. The underlying issue is of property rights. Yeah, we can discuss that and disagree. But the point is that there is no comparison between the Ayn Rand Club and the MSA. The MSA is a fanatic organization who support ethnic cleansing. Even if you don't like Rand, at least Ayn Rand supporters aren't racists or supporters of religious holy wars.
And my point about funding remains. Any student in the UC system involved with student orgs knows that if you are in a religious or cultural group you get more funding. If you are in the Young Dems or College Repubs you get less. Sometimes nothing. If you are in the College Repubs than your events get shut down too. The affirmative action bake-sales back in 2004 are a good example. Those got shut down all over the UC system because MECHA got offended. Malik Ali and Co. however never get shut down. They exercise their free speech and we get to pay for it. There is a double standard. I don't particularly like Horowitz but he is correct about that and the Muslim Brotherhood/MSA link. Go to the Investigative Project on Terror for more info on that.
UC Student,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment. I must confess that I failed all the philosophy classes I was forced to take in college and I don't know what an objectivist is.
I'm just a simple guy.