Monday, April 12, 2010
Did a Retired Bishop Attack Jews?
Giacomo Babini
(Hat tip to OC Independent Task Force on Anti-Semitism)
The Vatican is caught up in another embarrassing furor over an interview of a retired bishop from Grosseto, Italy, Giacomo Babini (81), in which he is quoted making several anti-Semitic (and gay) statements. The interview has attracted the attention of Jewish communities world-wide and caused a furor within the Church and the Italian media as well. It should be noted that Babini is denying making the anti-Semitic statements. Pontifex, a Catholic on-line website that conducted the interview, is sticking by its story and claims that the interview was taped. The below article is courtesy of the Orange County Independent Task Force on Anti-Semitism.
http://octaskforce.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/italian-bishop-quoted-as-saying-jews-use-the-holocaust-%e2%80%9clike-a-club%e2%80%9d-current-criticism-of-catholic-church-%e2%80%9czionist-attack%e2%80%9d/
After reading the above article, having lived in Italy and knowing Italian, I decided to go to the original Pontifex article, which appears below. It is followed by a translation of the most salient points.
http://www.pontifex.roma.it/index.php/interviste/religiosi/3973-massoni-ed-ebrei-contro-il-papa-sbagliato-chiedere-perdono-di-che-cosa-gli-ebrei-da-sempre-nemici-della-chiesa-e-deicidi-omosessuali-misericordia-ma-gli-animali-sono-piu-ordinati-di-loro-caso-claps-sconsacrata-la-chiesa
"La Chiesa deve chiedere perdono? E per cosa" si chiede Monsignor Giacomo Babini, Vescovo Emerito di Grosseto.Eccellenza alcuni giornali e voci isolate chiedono alla Chiesa una sorta di pubblico perdono per i preti pedofili: " penso che sia ora di dire basta. Di perdono ne abbiamo chiesti troppi e lo facciamo anche alla messa tutti i santi giorni. Pensino a farlo gli anglicani, tanto che molti di loro hanno deciso di passare al cattolicesimo, ora mi auguro che non ci imbarchiamo una bella dose di gay". Poi aggiunge: " la pedofilia é una cosa orrenda e basterebbe un solo caso per far gridare allo scandalo, ma mi consta che anche in altre confessioni ve ne siano e in proporzione maggiore a quella della Chiesa cattolica". Ma chi orchestra questa manovra?: " i nemici di sempre dei cattolicesmo, ovvero massoni ed ebrei e l'intreccio tra di loro a volte é poco facile da capire". Precisa: " ritengo che sia maggiormente ...
... un attacco sionista, vista la potenza e la raffinatezza, loro non vogliono la Chiesa, ne sono nemici naturali. In fondo, storicamente parlando, i giudei sono deicidi". Ora saltano: " ci sta poco da saltare. Le Scritture lo dicono bello chiaro.Magari lo erano in modo inconsapevole, hanno goduto della ignavia di Pilato, certo: ma deicidi sono, il crucifige lo hanno detto loro e non altri". Poi precisa: " la loro colpa fu tanto grave che Cristo premonizzò quello che sarebbe accaduto loro con il non piangete su di me, ma sui vostri figli". Che cosa intende dire?: " l'olocausto fu una vergogna per la intera umanità,ma ad esso occorre guardare senza retorica e con occhi attenti. Non crediate che Hitler fosse solo pazzo. La verità é che il furore criminale nazista si scatenò per gli eccessi e le malversazioni economiche degli ebrei che strozzarono la economia tedesca. Una tanto veemente reazione si deve anche a questo, la Germania era stanca delle angherie di chi praticava tassi di interesse da usura". Il suo non è un discorso politicamente corretto: " poco male, ma compito dei vescovi é parlare chiaro, sì sì, no, no. Furono deicidi e questo non lo dice Babini, lo dice il Vangelo, volete rinnegarlo o cambiarlo? Certo, per buonismo si arriva anche a questo". Precisa: " Cristo é il Redentore, é morto anche per la salvezza degli ebrei e di tutti e ciascuno di noi giornalmente lo crocifigge col peccato, ma dal punto di vista storico, si trattò di deicidio,bello e buono". Forse ci sta anche la lobby gay: " non lo dubito, anche loro se possono tirano sulla Chiesa. Bisogna trattare coloro che solo hanno tendenze omosessuali con delicatezza e senza ifierire, con misericordia. Ma accettino serenemante la loro croce e la malattia con santa rassegnazione. Altri invece praticano la omosessualità e persino se ne vantano. A loro dico che persino gli animali rispettano l'ordine della natura e loro no, da questo punto di vista meglio la regolarità degli animali". Ma come ritiene la ostentazione gay?: " un vizio osceno, una cosa che denota mancanza di equilibrio e violazione della natura". Darebbe i sacramenti ad un gay conclamato?: " la comunione certo no.Per il funerale se dovessimo applicare il diritto canonico direi di no, ma alcune volte i parenti ti chiedono l'impossibile e pretendono una chiesa che lavora a gettone. Certo, bisogna sempre far prevalere la misericordia per quanto riguarda il suicida e credo che sia giusto dar loro il funerale. Per l'omosessuale che pubblicamente ha oltraggiato la chiesa e l'ordine etico direi no". Ha seguito il caso della povera Elisa Claps?: " solo da quanto leggo e lo trovo incomprensibile. Certo, vi é stato un clima omertoso. Non penso che il vecchio parroco abbia ucciso la ragazza, probabilmente ha cercato di limitare lo scandalo tacendo, ma nessuno potrà mai provarlo. Un cadavere non può stare 17 anni in una sofftta senza che nessuno sapesse. Chissà,una chiesa sconsacrata, se si accerta che il delitto é avvenuto in chiesa, potrebbe fare piacere".A chi?: " non lo so".
Bruno Volpe
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Here are the important points:
Babini opens by questioning why the Church should ask for forgiveness (for the priest pedophilia scandal) "It is time to say, 'enough'". While condemning pedophilia, Babini maintains that it is found in other religions as well-and in greater proportion than the Catholic Church. He then continues;
"And who is orchestrating this manoevre? The eternal enemies of Catholicism, indeed the Masons and Jews, and the intermingling (complicity) between them is not very easy to understand."
".....a Zionist attack, given the power and refinement, they don't want the Church; they are natural enemies. Basically, speaking historically speaking, the Jews are 'God-killers'".
On the Holocaust, Babini said, "The Holocaust was a shame for all of humanity, but it is necessary to look at this without rhetoric, but with attentive eyes. Don't believe that Hitler was just crazy. The truth is that the criminal Nazi furor broke out due to the excesses and the economic embezzlement of the Jews that was strangling the German economy. Such a vehement reaction was due also to this. Germany was tired of the oppression of those who practiced this usurial interest tax."
On homosexuality, while speaking of compassion for gays, Babini calls homosexuality "an obscene vice" and says that open gays should be denied confirmation and canon rights for funerals. He also remarks that even animals respect the laws of nature in contrast to practicing homosexuals (paraphrased).
That is what Babini is quoted as telling Pontifex. I repeat that Babini is denying making any anti-Semitic statements while Pontifex stands by its interview and says the interview was taped.
It is the old story: When in doubt, blame the Jews.
ReplyDeleteThis came out on HaShoah (Day of Remembrance)
I read about this. This would be funny if he wasn't serious.
ReplyDeleteLance,
ReplyDeleteWhy would it be funny?
Because it's so absurd and completely detached from reality.
ReplyDeleteWhy is anyone surprised? The Jews did kill Jesus, the church does condemn homosexuality, whatelse did he say that doesn't fit with the teachings of the Vatican?
ReplyDeleteWhy anyone can be a catholic is beyond my understanding.
Ingrid,
ReplyDeleteThe actual crucifixion was carried out by the Romans. Does that mean we should hate Italians? (I know that is not your logic. I am referring to the Bishop.)
Lance. Yes, it's absurd and detached from reality, but how many still buy into this stuff? Note I also added another translation about homosexuals.
Personally, I blame the Amish.
ReplyDeleteLance,
ReplyDeleteSometimes I think I should convert and become Amish.
Why isn't it alright to say that it was the Jews who wanted Jesus dead and the Romans carried out the execution? This is history. Do I have to hate the Jews because of that, or the Romans for that matter? I don't follow any church, certainly not the catholic teachings. I am not responsible for their wrongdoing through history.
ReplyDeleteI am a Christian, I don't hate anybody, I understand human nature and don't excuse anything that is done in the name of God, Jesus etc. because I KNOW this is not what Jesus taught us. He asked the Father for forgivness for his murderers, and he instructed us to love and to forgive.
Ted, don't put your thoughts into my thinking, you are so far removed from what I believe in and what I know to be the truth.
I think that there's a bit of misunderstanding going on here.
ReplyDeleteWhen Ingrid (who I will confess, is my mother) said that the "Jews killed Jesus" it was in context of what the teaching of the Vatican has been saying for over a thousand years. And like it or not, that is what you'll find in the New Testament - mainly the Gospel of John. It's very clear that the Jews are at fault. Now, I'd argue that it's more mythology than history, but either way, that is what it says. Acknowledging that, whether as a believer or not, doesn't mean that you hate Jews or that you think that they should still pay for that. After all, you can acknowledge that Vikings pillaged and raided the coast of England, but that doesn't mean that you think that you should take it out on every Norwegian you meet.
Likewise, pointing out that this is all part of Catholic teaching is simply stating a fact - not attacking Catholics. Personally, I find plenty at fault with Catholicism as well, but I don't blame the average Catholic for the lapses of the church hierarchy.
Lance,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your points. Though I consider Christ to be the center of whatever religious feelings I have, I am not concerned with who crucified him. I have my own beefs with the Catholic Church as a Protestant married to a Catholic and who raised our kids in the Catholic church. For me, the pedophilia scandal and the Church's reaction to it was the final straw. That doesn't mean I don't like Catholics.
As I understand the history (I am rapidly becomeing acquainted) anti-Semitism began for religious reasons and in the modern era evolved into economic jealosy to which the Nazis added race prejudice. To the Nazis, it wasn't anout religion, it was about race and their belief that Jews wielded too much power in germany. The Italian bishop's remarks legitimized those feelings. Now we are in the post modern era, where anti-semitism has new aspects-Israel, Zionism, added to the belief that they have too much power in the US, they are an impediment to better relations with the Arab/Muslim world, plus the Muslims'traditional religious bias.
It is easy to downplay it here in the US and canada-where anti-semitism is definitely on the rise, but the perilous situation of the 6-7 millions Jews in israel and the violent anti-semitic acts in Europe are cause for real concern.
As a Jew I will ask Ingrid this: "So what if we did, what are you going to do about it?"
ReplyDeleteAnd yes Ingrid, this is Anti-Semitism!
Ahh yes...another reminder of why I'm glad to be an atheist! The clear anti-Semitism that's expressed in the New Testament is one more reason why I can't believe in such a book.
ReplyDeleteIt should be noted that there most definitely is some pro-Roman historical revisionism in the account of Jesus and his crucifixion. The whole bit about Pilate "washing his hands" of the whole thing doesn't jive with the man's historical reputation. He was dismissed from his post for being too cruel and eager to kill as many Jews as he could. The NT writers definitely were trying to make him look better than he possibly was, and they found a convenient target in the Jews.
Anti-Semitism predates Christianity though. The founders of that religion were just piggybacking on the prejudices and fears that were already in existence.
Lance and Ingrid.
ReplyDeleteThe myth that the Jews killed Jesus is as basic to the Catholic Church as it was to the Protestant Churches through out history including Lutheranism.
Martin Luther, a classical anti-Semite played a key role formulating the Nazi way of thinking. He played the "Christ killer card."
On Christmas every year, my family suffered pogroms, because (guess why)? They were accused of killing Jesus. Many of my family were killed, had their land confiscated and thrown out of their villages.
Most of my family were killed as a result of the German Nazis including many German Jews, My father bears a numbered tattoo. The Nazis manipulated the Christ killer lie in order to gain accomplices to the killing of Jews throughout conquered Europe.
Frankly, Ingrid if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, well you know the rest.
Repeating the lie in the context that you did, tells volumes about who you are and what you think.
Ted, I suggest that you read the Gospel of John. It clearly blames the Jews for the death of Jesus. When Christians called Jews "Christ killers", it had a basis in their Holy Book. I'm not making this stuff up - go check it out for yourself.
ReplyDeleteUnlike my Mom and Gary though, I am not a Christian. While I'd be lying if I told you that I rejected this religion simply due to its history of anti-Semitism, I can tell you that it certainly is one more thing that makes it rather unappealing to me.
In defense of my Mom, I can assure you that she does not hate Jews. You're taking what she said out of context (although I don't think that she worded her point very well). I've vocally spoken out against anti-Semitism, even teaching about the long, sordid history of it while teaching The Merchant of Venice to high school students. Where do I get my sense of treating all people equally? From my parents - that's where.
Lance,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree with you more.
Ted and Findalis, I think that you both are idiots and don't know how to read. In fact you are stating what I am supposed to think and believe that is so far from my belief and faith, and the way I conduct my life.
ReplyDeleteLance, thanks for trying but it's now use with them.
I will never read anything you two have to say, because I am anti idiots. Maybe you will choke on the poison that burns in you. And I forgive you because I am a Christian. What are YOU going to do about that, you hateful creatures???
Why isn't it alright to say that it was the Jews who wanted Jesus dead and the Romans carried out the execution?
ReplyDeleteThis is what I said.
So where does that make me anti semitic?
Ingrid tell your Jewish friends that and see their response.
ReplyDeleteIt is very anti-Semantic. And yes, I have read the New Testament.
It ranks up there with the Blood Libel on how we Jews use Christian blood to make our Passover matzah (A couple of Popes proclaimed that one! So it must be true!).
As I said before, so what. What are you going to do about it? Kill the rest of us? That is your great idea of Christianity?
Oh Lance, you don't have to be religious to be an anti-Semite, it just helps!
Many Jews have already "choked on your poison" Ingrid.....
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, for me, debating over who killed Jesus is about as relevant as debating who kidnapped Helen of Troy.
ReplyDeleteStill, I do find all of this stuff interesting. As I said, only the Gospel of John has a real ax to grind when it comes to the Jews. In the other three Gospels, it's just the religious leaders and "the crowd" that want him dead. But still, who cares? Even if this really happened (which I don't think it did) it's not like any of those who are to blame are around to accept responsibility. (And wasn't it Jesus' destiny to die on the cross? Whether Jews or Romans, they were all just acting out divine will.)
But hey - who was responsible for Helen of Troy's kidnapping? I say that she wanted to leave with Paris and the Trojans got a bum rap.