Below is the letter I sent today to the UC-Irvine campus newspaper, New University. Whether they will choose to print it or not, I have no idea.
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The performance of the Muslim Student Union Monday night was despicable. To
disrupt a speech by an ambassador of any nation is a diplomatic incident in and
of itself. That this happened on the UCI campus is a major embarrassment for the
university. One can only hope that criminal charges will be filed, and if any
of the individual disruptors are UCI students, hopefully, they will be
expelled.
Secondly, the Muslim Student Union not only did a disservice to their
(pro-Palestinian) cause, but they did a disservice to the greater Muslim
community that doesn't need incidents like this.
In addition, they refused to accord the right of free speech and the right of
the audience to hear a message because they don't like it. I have been attending
MSU-sponsored events for several years now at UCI and listened to a lot of hate
speech-words that Ambassador Oren never engaged in. Their speakers have never
been subjected to this type of disruption. If the MSU had differences with the
Israeli ambassador, they could have asked him their questions during the Q&A,
Perhaps, the biggest mistake the MSU committed was showing a local audience that
there really IS a problem at UCI, in spite of all the denials. The audience
members will take this experience home and tell others what is really going on
at UCI. Monday night, the truth came out for all to see.
Gary Fouse
Adj. teacher
UCI-Ext
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Additional comment: As the crowd was leaving the hall last night, one elderly Jewish woman was heard to say, "My garndkids are not coming to UCI."
That pretty much sums it up.
First of all there is no such thing as true freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is only for those in power. The media fools people into thinking that there is true freedom of speech but they only tell you what they want you to hear but you will hardly ever alternative points of view like chomsky or finkelstein in the mainstream press. In this country, the corporate media controls free speech and limits it to a very narrow range of discussion.
ReplyDeleteNow with regards to the Israeli ambassador speaking, I would not show any respect to him for he is a racist no different from the white South Africans during apartheid. Imagine if the South African ambassador during apartheid came and spoke. First, I doubt the Chancellor would come out to defend him so vigorously and second, I am sure his reception would be much more hostile and rightly so. The Israeli ambassador needs to understand that as long as his country perpetuates its racist and colonial policy and continues the starvation and blockade of Gaza (ie concentration camp) they will never have a friendly reception around the world. If the KKK or any of the dictator Arab leaders came to campus to speak I would do the same thing as the muslims did. I would show respect to the Israeli ambassador when he starts to respect the Palestinians and give them their rights. Also, the difference between him and some pro palestinian academic that comes to speak is the Israeli ambassador is in a position of power and when power is abused you must oppose and expose the abuse.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI respect your point of view, but I am not prepared to accept that Israel is an apartheid state in the way South Africa was. The apartheid issue is a selling point that many have bought into.
Nevertheless, the Israeli ambassador had a right to speak, and we in the audience had a right to hear him. The rights of 200-300 or so were threatened by a minority of 30-40. I have attended the speech every MSU -sponsored speaker I could for the past 3 or so years. I have listened and then hit them with questions afterward in the Q&A. An MSU speaker has never been disrupted in such a manner at UCI. And the words they spout are 100 times worse than anything Oran said.
Mr anonymous reads like an old fashioned rambling Marxist-Leninist.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he actually believes this nonsense.
Racist? apartheid? Colonial? He must have been reading too much Ahmadinijad.
I wonder if Mr. Anonymous thinks that the Haitian earthquake was caused by an American earthquake machine? (ala Venezuela's Chavez)
Ted,
ReplyDeleteI plan to deal more with that apartheid question tomorrow.
Ask a Palestinian in the occupied territories can they enter the Jewish only roads? Ask a Palestinian if they travel a few miles in the occupied territories whether they will be harassed, humiliated, or be even denied entry to their own town. Or in Israel proper, compare the number of building permits for Israeli Arabs versus Israeli Jews? Or if an Israeli Jew gets married to a spouse that spouse has the right to come and live with him or her but an Israeli Arab if they get married from someone in the occupied territories they cannot live together in Israel proper for the Israelis will deny the spouse from the occupied territories a permit. Or simply look at the funding for Jewish schools by state compared to Arab schools who will notice a significant difference. Imagine in this country if we had white only roads or we continuously deny building permits to the blacks what we would be called. The apartheid aspect of Israel is well documented.
ReplyDeleteYou talk about an MSU speaker being hateful which I am sure there is some but at least he/she is not complicit in an apartheid state that recently slaughtered 700 civilians in Gaza and continues to starve them in a concentration camp. When John Kerry went to Israel he asked the Israelis why they forbid the Gazans from importing pasta and lentils. The Israelis told him it was a luxury item but of course the Israeli ambassador I am sure mentioned this in his speech. Or did he mention the Jews only roads in the occupied territories or how they confiscate Palestinian land in the occupied territories and East Jerusalem to accommodate Israeli Jews.
Well said, Shane!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Mr antonymous supports the Jihad Mickey Mouse programs shown on Hamas and Fatah children's TV and Parents sending their children out with bombs strapped to themselves to blow up innocent Israeli women and children. While their leaders steal their money (ala Arafat)
I wonder if he knows what the "occupied territories" were called prior to 1967 and who were they occupied by?
Calling Israel apartheid and racist is a lie, perpetrated by gutless hypocrites who don't have the integrity criticize "egalitarian" states like Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia etc etc etc.
Gary,
ReplyDeleteFirst, apartheid does not have to be racial for it can be ethnic in origin.
Second, the bantustans are in the occupied territories which Israel's occupation is illegal. Why do they have Jewish only roads and they continue to confiscate their land and give it to the Jews for settlements. Why when a Palestinian travelling in the West Bank only not Israel proper will be searched, interrogated, and wait hours to go to another town in the West Bank while Jews are waved through. That sounds like apartheid to me for the Jews are a minority in the West Bank but they continue to confiscate Palestinian land and wall themselves off in settlements which are all illegal by UN resolutions. This has nothing to do with terrorism. The suicide bombings started after the Oslo accords when the Israeli's continued to build settlements. If Israel is interested in peace why do they continue to expand the settlements, can you provide an answer to that.
Egypt is building the wall simply because Mubarek is an american puppet who does what he told to do and Egypt does not want Hamas in power because it is worried about the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt. Also, with regards to terrorism, Israel supported Hamas in the beginning in Gaza to rival Fatah and that is well documented.
Also, what do you call the bombing of civilian areas, using white phosphorus, bombing apartment buildings. If you support that then you would support the bombing of Boston in the 80's by the British to kill IRA members for there were many members of the IRA in Boston raising money and traveling back and forth.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean there is no true freedom of speech or that is only for those in power? They have to watch what they say more carefully than folks like you or I. I have no power, but I have freedom of speech and apparently you do also. This is Amerca.
As to your comments about Israel. I have commented on the apartheid issue. I have said however that I am not a Middle East expert. (I have been there once.) It may be that you are from there. Some of the examples you mentioned, I am not qualified to debate. For example, like many American Jews, I have uneasy feelings myself about the settlements. If that land is eventually going to
become Palestine, then it seems to me that the settlers should be in what would remain Israel proper, but I don't know enough about it.
I have never said that the Palestinians don't have some legitimate grievances. Surely, they do. I do believe however, had they not resorted to terrorism, they would have had their palestine decades ago.
I do not believe that the Israelis deliberately want to kill Palestinian civilians. It makes it pretty hard to avoid that however when Hamas and Hizbollah set their fighting positions up in civilian locations-deliberately.
Why do you think that the Israelis control the movements of palestinians? Because of the terror threat, right? You say they stopped the suicide bombings. Sure they did because of the wall-it kept them out. What about the rockets from Gaza into S Israel?
Finally, you mention rabbis exhorting IDF to kill palestinian babies. I vaguely recall hearing about one such report. Of course, I condemn that kind of statement. But if you want to open that door, go ahead. Then we can talk about all those imams and Muslim clerics that are preaching death and destruction from certain mosques. You don't really want to keep score on that, do you?
I want nothing more than what is the official position of the US govt- a 2 state solution with both states living in peace. Friendship will have to come later. Unfortuanetly, I don't think the situation is right for a settlement. The Hamas charter, for example, echews negotiation. They want the Jews destroyed. How can you negotiate with that?
It is pretty obvious that the Palestinina people have hitched their wagon to the wrong people. And look where they are as a result.
Gary,
ReplyDeleteI forgot to add that I only brought the quote from the Rabbi to show there are extremists on the Jewish side and there are many more for simply go to the orthodox schools especially in the West Bank just like there is extremist on Palestinian sides but the media always paints the Palestinians as extremist but very rarely will you hear about the extremist Jews in the orthodox schools.
You also state that the Palestinians would have a state a long time ago if they negotiated. Well they have attempted multiple times to negotiate but the Israelis refused. They finally started in Oslo and it went well initially but then it broke down when the Israelis refused to stop the settlements. If you are under occupation you first negotiate. Then negotiate and try again. After failing multiple times then you resort to violence which is your right under international law. The ANC in South Africa resorted to violence after they realized that the South Africans did not want to negotiate.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteOf course, I reject extremists on both sides, but there is no comparison as to which side has more.
You may know the history of the negotiations better than I do, but it seems to me the Israelis' trading land for peace has failed to bring peace. Example would be Gaza.
PS to Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteDo you mean to say that under international law, if negotiations fail, the palestinians have a "right" to conduct suicide bombings on busses and pizza parlors and launch rockets into Israeli schools? Did they also have a right to hijack the Achille Lauro in the Mediterrean and kill
passengers? Did they have a right under international law to do what they did in 1972 at the Munich Olympics? How about when they carried out simultaneous massacres in the 1980s at the Rome and Vienna airports? How about all those skyjackings?
You didn't mean that, did you?
Gary,
ReplyDeleteI said earlier that I condemn suicide bombings but under international law the Palestinians have the right to resist the occupation in the occupied territories and I repeat in the occupied territories, whether by force or not that is their right not in Israel proper.
You talk about all those incidents which I condemn but look at again the number of killings on both sides. The ratio is at least 10 to 1. The Israelis will simply bomb a building with an F16 and it is described as a raid and many civilians die masked under the military target. Read Chomsky book on the fateful triangle or Henry Siegman who was executive director of the American Jewish Congress for 16 years for more on this. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam or http://mondoweiss.net/2010/01/henry-siegman-israel-is-the-only-apartheid-regime-in-the-western-world.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/18/opinion/op-siegman18
Yes Israel withdrew from Gaza simply because it is a dump but Israel has made it into a prison. NO flights into, no boats into, and very little gets through the border. Again this is all illegal for since Israel withdrew it has no mandate to control the coast or airspace. Read the independent paper in england how they have forbid pasta and lentils to be imported.
Extremism is on both sides and Palestinian extremism is not any more than the Jewish extremism but you rarely hear about the Jewish extremist in the West Bank that terrorize poor palestinian families by beating them or burning their olive groves. BTselem is an Israeli human rights group that documents human rights abuses in the occupied territories. Check out their website. http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp
Or read about what Israel Shahak says about Jewish extremism. http://www.fogcityjournal.com/wordpress/2009/08/12/religious-fundamentalism-in-israel/
The media here only shows you the Palestinian extremist and ampliflies it many times but when was the last time it showed a Jewish orthodox school that teaches children to hate the Arabs and it is ok to kill them. Do you remember Menachem Begin who was Israels prime minister, well he was wanted by the british in 1948 for blowing up the King David hotel in Jerusalem killing 91 people. Or Ariel Sharon he was implicated in the Sabra and Shatila massacres in Lebanon when he was defense minister and then later became prime minister.
By the way my name is Mike.
I am sure you probably do not believe a quarter of what I have stated here but do the research and read many Israeli authors and you will be amazed what is never reported here.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteYou are throwing a lot of stuff at me, so let's try to get back to basics.
We all regret the loss of innocent life on all sides. Yes, innocent Palestinian civilians, men, women and children have died, principally by air strikes aimed at Hamas or hizbollah fighters.
BTW, compare those with what WE did in WW2 over German and Japanese cities. That was not accidental collateral damage. We were trying to break the will of the German and japanese public. Of course, in WW2 we were fighting for our survival, so I am not condemning those actions, tragic as they were.
But Israelis have never been guilty of the acts I described in my last comment.
I know the history of Begin and Sharon and the King David Hotel and all that. It is my understanding that Shgaron and his army turned the other way and allowed Falangists fighters (if I am not mistaken) to enter those camps. Israelis did not actually do the killings, but there was apparently some collusion.
Please don't ask me to read Noam Chomsky. When I was studying linguistics, I read plenty of his stuff. he may be the premier linguistics expert in the US, but when it comes to anything else, i consider him an idiot.
In my humble opinion, of course.
Gary,
ReplyDeleteRead the Fateful Triangle by Chomsky for it is one of the most heavily footnoted books I ever read and everything documented. He is simply stating the facts. His other books are not that great. Ilan Pappe is another Israeli author that talks about ethnic cleansing.
The Israelis true never really hijacked planes or did any other terroristic acts like that but why should they for they simply fly over Gaza or the West Bank and bomb them anytime with very little impunity. When you have military superiority you do not have to resort to guerrilla and terroristic acts.
Anyway I got to go to bed and it has been nice having a great discussion about this topic. I have no stake in this conflict but I am an honest person who simply speaks the truth without regard to race, ethnicity, or religion. I try to keep an open mind about all issues and research them thoroughly before I arrive at any conclusion. If I am wrong in any facts or statements I hope to be corrected and proven wrong.
Peace,
Mike
Mike,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your comments and respectfully agree to disagree with you on several of your points. Decent people can disagree on this issue if they are not blinded by hate.
But I'm not going to read Noam Chomsky.
peace.